Obama Defies Pessimists as Rising Economy Converges With Stocks (1 Viewer)

[dtc]

You are an outlier.

As you often do, you speak the truth.

 

[dtc]

This is the truth. One of the biggest reasons for the job numbers looking as good as they do right now is the number of people that got jobs with the census, and temp job working on road projects. When that money runs out and those jobs come to a end it's going to get bad.

Sure, but tell me why the market is up and consumer spending is increasing.

What are you going to say if this time next year unemployment is back down to about 8% and the market is at 12k?

 

[Bulletproof Tiger]

There is this thing called the business cycle. What goes up must come down and the other way around. The fact that Obama hasn't been able to get ANYTHING AT ALL DONE makes the markets happy... happier than him demonizing "fat cat bankers" and "evil insurance executives." Also, since he has wasted so much time on health care, he hasn't been able to tax energy via cap and trade which would have raised the price of EVERYTHING thereby raising taxes especially on the middle and lower class as they are more affected by every day item price increases. Based on the above, he seems pro business and pro capitalism, which MUST be why the market is up. Bottom line, the economy would be more fragile than it currently is if some of these policies passed... particularly cap and trade. Good job though, Obama, on the stagnation. I couldn't be happier.

 

[SaintScott]

is sounds like u r *hoping* that things turn out bad... why is that?

No not at all. I think things are going pretty bad already, and most of these numbers are smokescreens that get adjusted downward somewhere down the road.

 

[SaintScott]

Sure, but tell me why the market is up and consumer spending is increasing.

What are you going to say if this time next year unemployment is back down to about 8% and the market is at 12k?

You are right the market is creeping back up, but there is no recovery without jobs, permanent jobs not temps. I'm not sure where you got the numbers that consumer spending is up....I'm not saying it isn't but I haven't seen anything that would say that is true.

I would answer the question you asked but it is like asking what I would do if I won the lottery back to back? It could happen but I don't think it will.

 

[DavidM]

I'm not sure where you got the numbers that consumer spending is up....I'm not saying it isn't but I haven't seen anything that would say that is true.

Consumer spending up, manufacturing grows

NEW YORK
Mon Mar 1, 2010 2:05pm EST

The Commerce Department said on Monday spending rose 0.5 percent, increasing for a fourth straight month, after advancing by an upwardly revised 0.3 percent in December. Consumer spending in December was previously reported to have increased 0.2 percent.

Analysts polled by Reuters had expected consumer spending, which normally accounts for over two-thirds of U.S. economic activity, to increase 0.4 percent in January.

"The message is continuing progress for the economy, if not as fast as hoped," said Pierre Ellis, a senior economist at Decision Economics in New York.

An industry report said the U.S. manufacturing sector grew in February but at a slower rate than was expected. Analysts said it was still proof the economy is on the mend.

The Institute for Supply Management (ISM) said its index of national factory activity declined to 56.5 in February from 58.4 in January. The median forecast of 80 economists surveyed by Reuters was for a reading of 57.5.

A reading below 50 indicates contraction in the manufacturing sector, while a number above 50 means expansion.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6202E120100301

 

[dtc]

You are right the market is creeping back up, but there is no recovery without jobs, permanent jobs not temps. I'm not sure where you got the numbers that consumer spending is up....I'm not saying it isn't but I haven't seen anything that would say that is true.

I would answer the question you asked but it is like asking what I would do if I won the lottery back to back? It could happen but I don't think it will.

FYI, the market is up about 60% off its lows in 08. If you call that creeping up, what do you call the growth in the market during the Bush administration? Remember those years? From 2000 - 2008 we gained negative 2400.

How would you characterize going from 10600 to 8200 over 8 years of Bush compared to 6400 to 10600 in 13 months of Obama? Me, I thank my lucky starts it only took 1 year for Obama to get us back to where we were when Bush took office.

 

[LafourcheSaint]

I've been saying for a while now that Obama is another Clinton... Just like Clinton, Barry Obama represents the best hopes of the Liberals ("Healthcare for all!!") and the worst fears of Conservatives ("He's gonna take away our guns!!")... in reality, like Clinton, he is a centrist and, like Clinton, he will be good for the economy.

Pres. Obama is not a centrist in the least. While he argument can be made that Clinton was a fiscal conservative, I would seriously doubt anyone in their right mind would try and make that argument about Barry.

I also believe that the economy is a little more complex than being something can be "fixed" or "wrecked", especially by an American President.

As far as your hopes and fears (satirical) hypothesis, I kind of agree. I only wish people weren't so reactionary and extreme. While his "reform" is not to my taste, I seriously doubt Crackhead Joe is going to free cancer treatment on the taxpayer's dime if it passes. Just like if he gets his way on "gun control", I don't expect anyone to come and take away my permitted .38.

 

[Bulletproof Tiger]

FYI, the market is up about 60% off its lows in 08. If you call that creeping up, what do you call the growth in the market during the Bush administration? Remember those years? From 2000 - 2008 we gained negative 2400.

How would you characterize going from 10600 to 8200 over 8 years of Bush compared to 6400 to 10600 in 13 months of Obama? Me, I thank my lucky starts it only took 1 year for Obama to get us back to where we were when Bush took office.

Making those claims are purely political. The market collapse started well before Bush was in office. The market is run on fear and greed. There was too much fear bringing the market down to 6500. At that point, any smart person thought it was undervalued and bought. Whether democrat or republican, no president is responsible for a market gaining 60% in a matter of a few months... especially when no policy or regulation passed.

 

[BHM]

I've been saying for a while now that Obama is another Clinton... Just like Clinton, Barry Obama represents the best hopes of the Liberals ("Healthcare for all!!") and the worst fears of Conservatives ("He's gonna take away our guns!!")... in reality, like Clinton, he is a centrist and, like Clinton, he will be good for the economy.

Yeah, the dotcom was a hell of a ride. Soaring stock prices and money being made out of the azz. Right up until it collapsed.

 

[dtc]

Making those claims are purely political. The market collapse started well before Bush was in office. The market is run on fear and greed. There was too much fear bringing the market down to 6500. At that point, any smart person thought it was undervalued and bought. Whether democrat or republican, no president is responsible for a market gaining 60% in a matter of a few months... especially when no policy or regulation passed.

I would never argue that Bush caused the colossally dismal market performance during his term entirely nor would I even begin to give Obama's policies over the past 13 months credit for the entire resurrection of the market. I know better, but I was making an important point.

Many "conservatives" argue Democrats are bad for the economy and say big business doesn't like liberals. In reality, they do as shown by market performance. We can sit here and parse theories all we want, but the literal fact is that on Obama's watch we're up and during Bush's watch we floundered so the typical Republican wisdom that big business hates Democrats is awfully stupid.

 

[dtc]

Yeah, the dotcom was a hell of a ride. Soaring stock prices and money being made out of the azz. Right up until it collapsed.

Tell me about the dotcom collapse, please. When was it and how bad did the market do?

 

[BHM]

FYI, the market is up about 60% off its lows in 08. If you call that creeping up, what do you call the growth in the market during the Bush administration? Remember those years? From 2000 - 2008 we gained negative 2400.

How would you characterize going from 10600 to 8200 over 8 years of Bush compared to 6400 to 10600 in 13 months of Obama? Me, I thank my lucky starts it only took 1 year for Obama to get us back to where we were when Bush took office.

Care to discuss the NASDAQ during Clinton's term? Ride the wave, everybody is happy unitl the wave reaches shore and it breaks.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Pres. Obama is not a centrist in the least. While he argument can be made that Clinton was a fiscal conservative, I would seriously doubt anyone in their right mind would try and make that argument about Barry.

ok, but i guess i'm looking for an explanation as to *why* people think he isn't a centrist... so far the economy (whether or not it's his doing, as you noted, is always debateable) shows signs of improving and, like Clinton, his first big initiative has been Healthcare-- so what on Earth makes people think he's so much more Liberal than Clinton?? Anyone???

 

[dagimlet]

ok, but i guess i'm looking for an explanation as to *why* people think he isn't a centrist... so far the economy (whether or not it's his doing, as you noted, is always debateable) shows signs of improving and, like Clinton, his first big initiative has been Healthcare-- so what on Earth makes people think he's so much more Liberal than Clinton?? Anyone???

Clinton moved to the center as a result of the Republican uprising, which may or may not happen with Obama.