PFF grading system appears unclear (3 Viewers)

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MikeyF said:
Did you listen to the Watt interview...

Maybe that is what PFF wants you to think!
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One former player has an opinion, therefore it is fact?

I would agree that the old PFF was less reliable, but they've brought on more former coaches and players over the year to improve their grades and their advanced analytics for teams. Unfortunately, the public doesn't have access to their best stuff.

Also, as @Snakehead said, Pettis had a decent grade on the snaps he played, which weren't many. Does that mean a team is going to give him a massive contract, because he had an above average grade on 100 snaps? The obvious answer is no, but the writer needed some clicks today.
 
Rouxble said:
They use the data that drives the grades. For example, they can watch every snap that was a loss for Trevor Penning to see how best to attack him, which would require teams to have some faith that PFF's staff is able to identify a win or loss.

To me, it's funny that one of the biggest complaints of PFF is that they don't know a player's exact assignment on a play. News flash, neither do NFL coaches watching opponents' game film. Both groups are making educated guesses, but they can still see when a DL gets driven back, or when an OT gets completely beat on a passing down, even without knowing for sure precisely what a player was expected to do.

I wish I could find it, but there was a video where multiple coaches were asked to identify the pass coverage from the same game film, and they were all coming up with different answers. Even if they differ on what they think the coverage is, they can still figure out whether a CB has the speed to recover on a crossing route, or the physical skills to jam a receiver at the line.
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The bold comment is what peaked my interest in their grading system. While I never played anywhere on the OL, I was at enough practices to hear many coaches preach to the OT's to get back quickly and force the DE's around the back side of the QB...
This is why so many OT's in today's game use that goofy leg kick to get back as quickly as possible!
This is also why QB's are suppose to step up in the pocket!

From everything I've read about PFF's OL grading system when the DE or any defensive player crosses the line of scrimmage & if PFF decides that you are suppose to block him, it is a "Pressure"... They don't have any clue what the actual blocking assignments are... They also don't take into account whether or not a QB holds onto the ball to long... On some plays the OL is suppose to let the defenders come forward...

Because they don't know what all of the variables are on each play, it is a flawed system!
 
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Rouxble said:
One former player has an opinion, therefore it is fact?

I would agree that the old PFF was less reliable, but they've brought on more former coaches and players over the year to improve their grades and their advanced analytics for teams. Unfortunately, the public doesn't have access to their best stuff.

Also, as @Snakehead said, Pettis had a decent grade on the snaps he played, which weren't many. Does that mean a team is going to give him a massive contract, because he had an above average grade on 100 snaps? The obvious answer is no, but the writer needed some clicks today.
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I actually liked the way Pettis played for us down the stretch & I would not be disappointed if he is brought back next year.

He just isn't our best UFA...
 
MikeyF said:
Wow!!!
PFF not the player!

"PFF grading system is Crap!"

Stop putting words in my post in order to support your point!
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I didn't say you said the player. Who's putting words in posts now?

You still have yet to say who should be the highest graded performance of our UFA's.
 
Rouxble said:
One former player has an opinion, therefore it is fact?

I would agree that the old PFF was less reliable, but they've brought on more former coaches and players over the year to improve their grades and their advanced analytics for teams. Unfortunately, the public doesn't have access to their best stuff.

Also, as @Snakehead said, Pettis had a decent grade on the snaps he played, which weren't many. Does that mean a team is going to give him a massive contract, because he had an above average grade on 100 snaps? The obvious answer is no, but the writer needed some clicks today.
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It's less about the old and the new. PFF grading is subjective and no team (with sense) will use their grading because when coaches grade their players, they actually know what to grade them on. The addition of former players and coaches doesn't change the fact that without knowing the nuance of the play, their POV (which is currently of the armchair variety) determines the grade. This is what JJ Watt is saying; actual coach's grades and PFF grades don't align because PFF ultimately doesn't know what to look for to grade on. Their grades are "results" based.

PFF is good for objective, analytical data and that's what actual professionals use them for.
 
Rouxble said:
They use the data that drives the grades. For example, they can watch every snap that was a loss for Trevor Penning to see how best to attack him, which would require teams to have some faith that PFF's staff is able to identify a win or loss.

To me, it's funny that one of the biggest complaints of PFF is that they don't know a player's exact assignment on a play. News flash, neither do NFL coaches watching opponents' game film. Both groups are making educated guesses, but they can still see when a DL gets driven back, or when an OT gets completely beat on a passing down, even without knowing for sure precisely what a player was expected to do.

I wish I could find it, but there was a video where multiple coaches were asked to identify the pass coverage from the same game film, and they were all coming up with different answers. Even if they differ on what they think the coverage is, they can still figure out whether a CB has the speed to recover on a crossing route, or the physical skills to jam a receiver at the line.
Click to expand...
And some of this isn't a huge mystery. You can see from the play what the intention is. From that intention, individual players roles become clarified. And then you can see those individual players attempting to do based on the plays intention and what you would expect each individual player to do. Sometimes they do it, sometimes they fail, and usually it's somewhere in between. But football isn't 22 people randomly running around each play with secret and unconnected assignments known only to coaches. It's all generally pretty obvious.

I would say I speak largely about OL play, other stuff I know less about but I would assume for someone who understands the position or scheme, it would be fairly straightforward.

There will always be edge cases and what is more difficult to know with a great deal of certainty are the finer details of what a coach expects in terms of technique. While I understand, for example, where there should be a combo block on a zone run between two players, I wouldn't know how long the coach expects that combo block to last - is it quick or should it be maintained until a certain point, etc. And it is on this last point, to at least some extent in my experience, coaches will base a grade and that would create a divergence between any outsider grading purely on perceived outcomes.
 
MikeyF said:
The bold comment is what peaked my interest in their grading system. While I never played anywhere on the OL, I was at enough practices to hear many coaches preach to the OT's to get back quickly and force the DE's around the back side of the QB...
This is why so many OT's in today's game use that goofy leg kick to get back as quickly as possible!
This is also why QB's are suppose to step up in the pocket!

From everything I've read about PFF's OL grading system when the DE or any defensive player crosses the line of scrimmage & if PFF decides that you are suppose to block him, it is a "Pressure"... They don't have any clue what the actual blocking assignments are... They also don't take into account whether or not a QB holds onto the ball to long... On some plays the OL is suppose to let the defenders come forward...

Because they don't know what all of the variables are on each play, it is a flawed system!
Click to expand...
I will say that QB and OL are 2 of the things that PFF most definitely sucks at. When it comes to the O-line, part of the nuance is understanding the protections that the QB call (for the QBs who can). A QB can call the wrong protection and we blame the O-line. Also, how many O-lines got bad grades because the QB holds the ball too long. When it comes to QBs, the graders don't know how the QB is suppose to read the play. Also, who does PFF "punish" for miscommunication on option routes when the WR reads the coverage wrong? Too many things going on for people that don't know the specifics of the playbooks to accurately grade on.
 
In about 30 days you will be able to see who the best UFA Saint is. It's called free agency. The most money will follow the best free agent and I make a obvious prediction that it won't be Pettis.
 
TruSaint said:
Maybe trash was too harsh, i'll give it a 5/10. Failing grade.
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5/10 is also way to harsh. It's not a perfect system but good players tend to correlate with positive scores and vise versa.

A great example would be Bresee being graded as one of the worst iDL against the run in the entire league. This absolutely matches the eye test as he's constantly playing with high pad level and blown off the LOS.

PFF is great in certain "vacuum's" like OL grades in true pass protection sets.

You should never take their grades as fact, hell even teams can't grade players correctly (*cough cough Zach Baun*)
 
Rouxble said:
Yet every NFL team in the league utilizes PFF's services.
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I keep hearing this and several times during the past few years I've looked for credible verification that NFL teams use PFF's services, what exact services they use and how they use them. I have never been able to find any credible, definitive verification that NFL teams use PFF services.

Do you have any credible, definitive verification that teams use NFL services, what specific services they use and how they use them? Please share the links here if you do.
 
WhoDat?DrewDat said:
5/10 is also way to harsh. It's not a perfect system but good players tend to correlate with positive scores and vise versa.

A great example would be Bresee being graded as one of the worst iDL against the run in the entire league. This absolutely matches the eye test as he's constantly playing with high pad level and blown off the LOS.

PFF is great in certain "vacuum's" like OL grades in true pass protection sets.

You should never take their grades as fact, hell even teams can't grade players correctly (*cough cough Zach Baun*)
Click to expand...
Does PFF take into account a NT facing 2 blockers and a 3tech DT facing 1 blocker in their grades?
 

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