Queen Elizabeth II (Update: the Queen has passed) (1 Viewer)

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Saintman2884 said:
Gee, I wonder if his Twitter username kind of explains or describes his reasoning or contempt for a large portion of UK's public grief in losing a well-respected, well-liked monarch who reigned longer than any other British monarch/English king/Queen since Anglo-Saxon era when the country was split up and ruled by four regional monarchs/rulers: Mercia, Wessex, Northumbria, and East Anglia after last Roman forces left Britannia in 410 C.E.

@Christhemarxist kind of gives it away.
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I'm sure the monarchy isn't so fragile that it can't withstand the comments of a single individual on Twitter. And to be fair he has a point. The coverage on BBC has been remarkable in its insipidness. I guess it makes a change from the usual fawning rubbish of Jenny Bond running around telling everyone how remarkable the Queen Mother's hat is (she was a multi billionaire with access to every designer in the world after all). The coverage is hardly insightful about the future ramifications for the monarchy/world politics.

And anyway it's called free speech. People have a right to voice their opinions whatever their politics. Any decent country should not only tolerate, but welcome, criticism, it's what makes a country progress and retain good values. If I have to put up with Tommy Robinson and his fascist hate mob invading towns to stir up hated of minorities and muslims I'm sure the establishment can manage a few voices criticising the richest, most influential and most powerful family in Europe for a few moments :rolleyes:.
 
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Saintman2884 said:
Marxists, or at least Orthodox Marxist-Leninists, don't believe in free speech or at least the iteration spelled out in most, Western liberal democracies. I'm not condemning him for saying he shouldn't have a right to his own opinion, but free speech also allows me to criticize his, too. Its a two-way street. I can criticize him as much as he feels the need to lay out his grievances online on Twitter. Too bad in places like Venezuela the country's president, Maduro, has his party's followers attack counter-demonatrators, opposition politicians, activists, some left-leaning on the streets in violent demonstrations about why a once-prosperous, oil-rich country is now considered South America's Zimbabwe. Even Chile's center-left new President criticized Chavez's and Maduro's authoritian crackdown and repression and called out other leftists, liberals for their past hesistancy in doing so with other regimes. Frankly, from an historical perspective, no true Marxist state or socialist/communist state has ever existed where free speech or a free press was ever openly, fully allowed or permitted and the only voices allowed were state-sponsored media mouthpieces. There's also never been a true Marxist state, and likely they'll never will be, but don't think that won't get in the way of anybody trying.

Actually, some British Royal historians, like Kate Williams, have said or spoken out about how Queen Elizabeth's death will or might lead to significant political changes in terms of Commonwealth countries like Australia, Belize, Jamaica, Barbados might become republics and the Scottish independence question was raised, albeit briefly. It wouldn't surprise me if Welsh independence didn't become a issue like their Scottish predecessors did or have over time. In fact, if we're being realistic, it wouldn't surprise me if Australia didn't declare itself a republic within the next 10-15 years. Jamaica and Belize, too probably.
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Not like you to turn a thread about one thing into a polemic about Marxism...

With respect, just create a post called the evils of Marxism and leave it on there. I can't even make a post about the remarkable life of a Black American sports-cinema-singing star without having to partake in a long series of tiresome arguments with you about Stalin etc. I don't come on here to change the world, to hector people with different views, or to get a long lecture on historic events. You're welcome to your opinions and I respect your historical knowledge, but you're combativeness towards any left wing point of view makes discussions with you largely stressful and pointless.

This is exactly what happened here when we had a politics page and was why I disappeared for a few years. Personally I would prefer it if we just agreed to disagree, but my blood pressure and creaky old heart means I can't be bothered to argue with someone every time I make a post. And if I want to be told I'm wrong or get a lecture explaining why, I'll just talk to kids or my University lecturer father thanks.

It's not personal, and you make some excellent points (sometimes) but I really can't be bothered to have to argue every time I type a word on an EE forum.
 
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Geldo said:
Not like you to turn a thread about one thing into a polemic about Marxism...

With respect, just create a post called the evils of Marxism and leave it on there. I can't even make a post about the remarkable life of a Black American sports-cinema-singing star without having to partake in a long series of tiresome arguments with you about Stalin etc. I don't come on here to change the world, to hector people with different views, or to get a long lecture on historic events. You're welcome to your opinions and I respect your historical knowledge, but you're combativeness towards any left wing point of view makes discussions with you largely stressful and pointless.

This is exactly what happened here when we had a politics page and was why I disappeared for a few years. Personally I would prefer it if we just agreed to disagree, but my blood pressure and creaky old heart means I can't be bothered to argue with someone every time I make a post. And if I want to be told I'm wrong or get a lecture explaining why, I'll just talk to kids or my University lecturer father thanks.

It's not personal, and you make some excellent points (sometimes) but I really can't be bothered to have to argue every time I type a word on an EE forum.
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Paul Robeson was a great man who did a lot of great things in his life. No one's perfect and Ill leave it at that.

Left-wingers or liberals, as long as their reasonable, sensible, and make good, rational points, and most do sometimes, I have no problem with that.

Its just it's difficult for me to look past the many internal contradictions and the often-authoritarian streak thats always run through Marxism. Sure, you have Fabians but I wouldn't consider someone like Bernie Sanders or even past Labour PM's like Ramsey McDonald, Atlee, or even Harold Wilson to be "Marxist". Far from it, in fact.

If Ive been too argumentative or came on too strong, I apologize. One has to be very careful not to allow one's preferences to become an obsession and all-out consume him.

In fact, as a show of good faith and because I REALLY, REALLY do respect you, I'll delete my above-written responses to you. Its one thing for me to say I mean well, its another thing entirely to follow through with it and while we might disagree on some things politically, Geldo, I'd like to think we're both on the side of the Angels.
 
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Saintman2884 said:
Paul Robeson was a great man who did a lot of great things in his life. No one's perfect and Ill leave it at that.

Left-wingers or liberals, as long as their reasonable, sensible, and make good, rational points, and most do sometimes, I have no problem with that.

Its just it's difficult for me to look past the many internal contradictions and the often-authoritarian streak thats always run through Marxism. Sure, you have Fabians but I wouldn't consider someone like Bernie Sanders or even past Labour PM's like Ramsey McDonald, Atlee, or even Harold Wilson to be "Marxist". Far from it, in fact.

If Ive been too argumentative or came on too strong, I apologize. One has to be very careful not to allow one's preferences to become an obsession and all-out consume him.
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Honestly, I do enjoy a debate with you and you are very enlightening at times, however, I would enjoy your posts and viewpoint more - even respecting our differences - if I felt we could just agree to disagree on left wing politics. I'm perfectly fine with you about 90 per cent of this stuff anyway. No one wants to defend Stalin etc.

But equally, I have met far-left sympathisers who profoundly care about social justice, equal rights, civil rights, the horrors of vampire capitalism, education etc.
There is nothing in Marx and Engels 'Communist Manifesto' that talks about the need for gulags or death camps. For the most part it's a vision of a more equal just society written from the point of view of someone despairing at the nightmarish conditions of the poor in the Industrial Revolution.

So being a 'Marxist' in that sense doesn't make you a bad person or someone who supports murder. I know this because some of my family are Marxists and not one of them wants anyone killed or imprisoned for holding a different point of view (well, except my cousin).

I don't want to get involved in a long drawn out defence of something I don't need to defend anyway....this is I guess what I mean and why I feel frustrated.

Let's accept that we are both fundamentally caring decent people with a different viewpoint which has been formulated from personal experience and intellectual investigation and just accept we hold very different views about some things. This is actually what tolerance and free speech means in practice so this is a result :)
 
Geldo said:
Honestly, I do enjoy a debate with you and you are very enlightening at times, however, I would enjoy your posts and viewpoint more - even respecting our differences - if I felt we could just agree to disagree on left wing politics. I'm perfectly fine with you about 90 per cent of this stuff anyway. No one wants to defend Stalin etc.

But equally, I have met far-left sympathisers who profoundly care about social justice, equal rights, civil rights, the horrors of vampire capitalism, education etc.
There is nothing in Marx and Engels 'Communist Manifesto' that talks about the need for gulags or death camps. For the most part it's a vision of a more equal just society written from the point of view of someone despairing at the nightmarish conditions of the poor in the Industrial Revolution.

So being a 'Marxist' in that sense doesn't make you a bad person or someone who supports murder. I know this because some of my family are Marxists and not one of them wants anyone killed or imprisoned for holding a different point of view (well, except my cousin).

I don't want to get involved in a long drawn out defence of something I don't need to defend anyway....this is I guess what I mean and why I feel frustrated.

Let's accept that we are both fundamentally caring decent people with a different viewpoint which has been formulated from personal experience and intellectual investigation and just accept we hold very different views about some things. This is actually what tolerance and free speech means in practice so this is a result :)
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Well, in reality, we agree on or at least share most of the same basic agreements on most issues---gay marriage, civil rights, equal rights, trying to limit if not stop future disastrous climate change-related effects, so, when it comes to a lot of social issues, I lean very much as a libertarian, especially as it relates to gay marriage, civil rights, legalization of cannabis for personal and medical use. I can't say I'm completely supportive of Dutch-styled legalization of all drugs, but decriminalization, education, and rehabilitation do seem like better options than mass incarceration, at least from a long-term, pragmatist standpoint.
 
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guidomerkinsrules said:
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There's currently a 4.2 mile long queue to shuffle past Her Majesty's coffin, along with a government provided live YouTube stream to allow people to see just how long it is and where they need to go to join the back of it, with most news networks also offering a live stream of said people queuing and shuffling.


 
Sailorsaint said:
Basically, it's not for remembering the Queen or paying tribute to her memory.....it's a political gathering to rub elbows and whisper in ears.
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And something like this is a quick way to erode public support even more. I wonder if William's children will even get a chance to "serve" or if the institution will have ended by then? The out-of-touch-ness they showed with this will stain their image for a long time, I believe.
 
OMG, this is at the same time the weirdest but also the most mesmerizing ceremony I've seen. Camilla could barely contain a grin when she had to curtsy to Charles. There's even a secret anointing with oils! Honestly, the meeting of Rex and Comus is almost more somber than this.
 
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The only real effect the coronation has is that EPL did not schedule its 3pm games
That means Leeds getting drubbed by Man City and pushed that much closer to relegation is pushed back 2 hours
So for that 2 hours of peace, thank you King Charles- even if he is a Marxist somehow
 

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