Rattler's Jump Pass (2 Viewers)

[DSnfla]

When rattler is put in a position to succeed and not be on the worst offense I’ve ever seen in my life I will judge him.

He has had opportunities. There have been times when the OL had given him time and WRs have gotten open and he has missed those opportunities. Granted they have not been plentiful but they have been there. He's also had some help like in the Wash game , 2 brought the passer calls that extended drives. A DPI that extended a drive. Some geat running by Miller in the 2nd half

 

[DSnfla]

For all of the people that are down on Rattler did you watch the Texas's game yesterday...
Stroud looked & played terrible. He missed to many throws to open receivers.
The Texan O was shut out at home!
In my opinion he has not improved on his play from last year.
This proves that all young QB's need time to develop and they especially need players around them that are bonifide NFL starters in order to be successful!

The thing is CJ looked pretty good last yr if it was a development issue e would have looked bad last yr. I think he has regressed and he's missing some weapons. But teams have a yr of film on him so he's not a mystery. But I think he may not regain that rookie yr success

 

[saintfan1972]

He looks worse than every rookie QB drafted this yr

On a bad team also

 

[tyler735]

He has had opportunities. There have been times when the OL had given him time and WRs have gotten open and he has missed those opportunities. Granted they have not been plentiful but they have been there.

That's the issue though imo, those opportunities have been few and far between. There's been no consistency from our OL play in every game Rattler has played in because they have been banged up and going against top tier teams. All while playing without several key offensive skill players. The expectation from just about every rookie QB is that there will be growing pains and they will miss some open reads and not take advantage of every opportunity defenses give them.

This is why I and many others are having such a hard time judging what Rattler is. Because he hasn't had a chance for any real sustained success in the games he's been in. At times there's been some signs of him having potential to build around and then there's been some absolute headscratching moments. Ideally we see some actual consistency from our OL and skill players vs the Raiders to get a real gauge of where Rattler is at. I think if Rattler struggles vs the Raiders many will not view him as a potential starter for us or if he has a great game vs the Raiders I think there will be some optimism of what Rattler can do going forward as we (hopefully) revamp our offense.

 

[TenTwo]

He looks worse than every rookie QB drafted this yr

Did you see Bo Nix against us? Hot garbage... But Payton stayed with him and he has improved. How many starts did Nix have before he came out and looked abysmal against us?

 

[MikeyF]

He has had opportunities. There have been times when the OL had given him time and WRs have gotten open and he has missed those opportunities. Granted they have not been plentiful but they have been there. He's also had some help like in the Wash game , 2 brought the passer calls that extended drives. A DPI that extended a drive. Some geat running by Miller in the 2nd half

Carr looked mediocre after he came back from his injury due to our OL & the multitude of injuries on the O..
How can you expect a rookie or 1st year player to look good behind our injury riddled OL with terrible G play & not one starting WR...

In games if your OL doesn't make you feel comfortable the 1 or 2 opportunities don't really matter because you will to rush them.

Just look at the game Haener started.. even when he had a good pocket he was seeing ghost & running to the DL...
And he is a 2nd year pro...

You try to hide your disdain for Rattler by not giving him credit for playing behind the most banged up OL's in the NFL.
A veteran couldn't look good with our patch-work OL much less a rookie!

Will he work out?
Who knows... but he has had the most difficult starts out of any rookie QB that I can ever recall!

 

[TribuneUK]

That's the issue though imo, those opportunities have been few and far between. There's been no consistency from our OL play in every game Rattler has played in because they have been banged up and going against top tier teams. All while playing without several key offensive skill players. The expectation from just about every rookie QB is that there will be growing pains and they will miss some open reads and not take advantage of every opportunity defenses give them.

This is why I and many others are having such a hard time judging what Rattler is. Because he hasn't had a chance for any real sustained success in the games he's been in. At times there's been some signs of him having potential to build around and then there's been some absolute headscratching moments. Ideally we see some actual consistency from our OL and skill players vs the Raiders to get a real gauge of where Rattler is at. I think if Rattler struggles vs the Raiders many will not view him as a potential starter for us or if he has a great game vs the Raiders I think there will be some optimism of what Rattler can do going forward as we (hopefully) revamp our offense.

Deliberately perverse comparison here, but couldn't we have made all the same rationalisations for Ian Book when he was pressed into service?

Coaches and pivotal players missing thanks to COVID and injuries etc. And yet, what I recall was a fairly overwhelming chorus of 'He ain't it' - feels like everyone had enough to make an early judgement on him then ...

Disclaimer: I don't have a horse in this QB race. I think they're all subpar on the roster we have now. But if we're going to discuss 'needing to see more', let's say least be consistent in how we treat the evaluation.

 

[TribuneUK]

Who knows... but he has had the most difficult starts out of any rookie QB that I can ever recall!

Ian Book vs Miami says 'hi'

 

[MikeyF]

Ian Book vs Miami says 'hi'

My initial thought was, David Carr...

I was in Houston for his rookie year. The Texans drafted Tony Boselli the big OT from the Jaguars in the supplemental draft & pretty much no one else.
Also Boselli suffered an injury and didn't play much if at all for the Texans...
Carr played behind an OL that was non-existent.
I believe he was one of the most sacked QB in NFL history...
He also played in the NFL when you could basically decapitate a QB!

He never recovered from the mental & physical beating he took in Houston.

 

[tyler735]

Deliberately perverse comparison here, but couldn't we have made all the same rationalisations for Ian Book when he was pressed into service?

Coaches and pivotal players missing thanks to COVID and injuries etc. And yet, what I recall was a fairly overwhelming chorus of 'He ain't it' - feels like everyone had enough to make an early judgement on him then ...

Disclaimer: I don't have a horse in this QB race. I think they're all subpar on the roster we have now. But if we're going to discuss 'needing to see more', let's say least be consistent in how we treat the evaluation.

The biggest difference between Book and Rattler is arm talent. Nobody should question that Rattler has a top level NFL arm in terms of velocity and the ability to throw off platform from different arm angles. Book had a peashooter of an arm. It was obvious in college and even more glaring in his time with the Saints. In other words, one player has “potential” tools to be a quality NFL starter and the other had a backup at best caliber arm. Great arm strength isn’t the be all end all on its own, but it certainly disqualify someone that doesn’t have an NFL caliber arm.

 

[DaFranchise80]

Fans see Daniels, Stroud, etc and think they are the rule and not the exception. Most rookie QBs are going to struggle early in their careers (see Brees, Manning, etc).

 

[TribuneUK]

The biggest difference between Book and Rattler is arm talent. Nobody should question that Rattler has a top level NFL arm in terms of velocity and the ability to throw off platform from different arm angles. Book had a peashooter of an arm. It was obvious in college and even more glaring in his time with the Saints. In other words, one player has “potential” tools to be a quality NFL starter and the other had a backup at best caliber arm. Great arm strength isn’t the be all end all on its own, but it certainly disqualify someone that doesn’t have an NFL caliber arm.

You have to acknowledge the physical potential, agreed. But I also perceive a natural trend among us as fans to 'see the potential' and disregard negative flags / performance for our favourites, with the latter being greeted by the 'need to see more' rationale. Hence the reason I picked a fairly extreme comparison where, if someone 'saw the potential' in Book, they could call on similar excuses.

 

[tyler735]

You have to acknowledge the physical potential, agreed. But I also perceive a natural trend among us as fans to 'see the potential' and disregard negative flags / performance for our favourites, with the latter being greeted by the 'need to see more' rationale. Hence the reason I picked a fairly extreme comparison where, if someone 'saw the potential' in Book, they could call on similar excuses.

There are certainly times when that happens among fans for sure. I just don't see this situation with Rattler as one of those times quite yet. Like I've said in previous posts, I just want to see how Rattler does in a game that should have a "neutral" game script (if not slightly favor us) like this game vs the Raiders. It's the type of game that should offer a better idea of how Rattler can manage a game behind center for us when he isn't instantly forced to "play catch up" against a superior team while working with our "B" team on offense.

Prior to the Green Bay game, I made a post with a comparison of how Carr and Rattler had done this season against teams with winning records at the time. The stats weren't that much different between the 2 of them. Which is another reason to see how Rattler looks in a game vs an average/bad team, which the Raiders will be the first team he plays that isn't a playoff caliber team.

 

[TribuneUK]

There are certainly times when that happens among fans for sure. I just don't see this situation with Rattler as one of those times quite yet. Like I've said in previous posts, I just want to see how Rattler does in a game that should have a "neutral" game script (if not slightly favor us) like this game vs the Raiders. It's the type of game that should offer a better idea of how Rattler can manage a game behind center for us when he isn't instantly forced to "play catch up" against a superior team while working with our "B" team on offense.

Prior to the Green Bay game, I made a post with a comparison of how Carr and Rattler had done this season against teams with winning records at the time. The stats weren't that much different between the 2 of them. Which is another reason to see how Rattler looks in a game vs an average/bad team, which the Raiders will be the first team he plays that isn't a playoff caliber team.

Yeah, I can see the merit in that argument. Of course, I'll be interested to see how he does (hopefully well) and how critically and fairly he will then be assessed by the fanbase.

If it's a poor/limited performance, do his boosters get to disregard it and point to their preferred positive sample of other games as being more telling of future performance?

If it's a good/solid performance, do his detractors get to downplay it as a limited sample and say that they now 'need to see more' before they're convinced?

It can all just feel rather subjective.