Re-examining the Johnathan Sullivan pick (1 Viewer)

[Saintman2884]

If I ever understand the nature of the draft, I will never quite understand the Sullivan #1 Draft Pick in 2003, we had potentially a make or break in geting two top picks from the Ricky Williams trade in April 2002, it was perhaps our worse draft pick ever probably becuase of the signifance of the pick itself, I think the story has many scapegoats: Loomis inexperiecne, Haslett beng either fooled by Sullivan or thinking he was going to be that player he ddint turn out to be.
I think the loss of Laroi Glover hurt the Saints in 2002 and made them miss the playoffs and for that we needed a substitute, and in doing so, we made the critical error of not doing our homework and going on gut knowledge, Sullivan was a good player in college but to his teammates he was often withdrawn and aloff, and thinking this, perhaps Halsett chose not ignore what was glaring him in the face, and for that the Saints sufferred.

I think also the Saints and their fortunes turned in 2003 becuase of Sullivan arrival, we were supposed to be good and in contention for the near persevable future, we went 8-8 in 2003 and 2004 but it was always a struggle to make .500 and in the end it cost Haslet his job.

In summary, I think that Sully was the beginning of the end for the Haslett regime, he had it all going until then and for that combined with Turley, Delhomme, and Roaf leaving becuase of contract disputes that year, it was the end for Haslett.

What I find surprising was how hard Haslett fought on for so long after 2002, he stayed for almost 4 more years, we could have fallen apart so many times and yet we didnt until a hurricane arguably did the job for us and almost tore up the team from this city.

But as it is I think Sullivan was perhaps a good example of not trusting your instincts and not going with your own knowledge and being smart instead of going on gut feeling, Sully failed as a NFL pick and as a player, but he remains the best example of perhaps the worse player ever picked by this franchise.

 

[daninmn]

he was definetly a bust. we traded up to get him and he never became a good player. there have been other bad picks in the past, sully is right up there on the worst pick ever list. mainly because of how high he was taken.

 

[hardhead233]

I agree, that was a bad pick and I never understood why(they picked him), If I remember correctly we even traded away a 1st round pick to move up and draft this guy??? I don't ever remember hearing this guys name that much in college for him to be a guy you trade away a first round pick to get. I'm an LSU fan so I have some familiarity with Georgia. I don't ever remember him being this super dominating linemen. What I think happened was Sullivan was guy with all of the right measurables and he ran a great 40 time and had a great scouting combine so the NFL scouts threw his college career out the window thinking they could coach guys like Sullivan up(sometimes they can but imo too many times they do not) regardless of anything else. I think you need to find guys that have that right mix of both.


I believe the NFL(many scouts, GM's, coaches) have a certain degree of arrogance when it comes to situations like this, they think they can take a guy that is really just big and fast and looks good on paper and coach him into the next Bruce Smith.....

 

[daninmn]

I agree, hardhead. Seems like every year there are several guys who go to the combine as projected 4th or fifth round picks who put up crazy numbers in the 40, bench press, and all that and move into the first round. If someone doesn't produce in college there's a good chance they're not gonna become studs all of a sudden in the pro game. Of course, you can flip-flop the whole thing and point to system guys who put up huge numbers in college but don't have the physical tools to translate to the NFL.(think Danny Wuerfell) So, you can't ignore measureables either. Like you said, it takes both to make a good player.

 

[fahad]

we really had a very bad pick and the move it self is sad giving up two round pick for nothing and not only nothing but it cost you in the salary cap for years .. Crazy and sad .. we could had better pick or picks.

 

[hardhead233]

I agree, hardhead. Seems like every year there are several guys who go to the combine as projected 4th or fifth round picks who put up crazy numbers in the 40, bench press, and all that and move into the first round. If someone doesn't produce in college there's a good chance they're not gonna become studs all of a sudden in the pro game. Of course, you can flip-flop the whole thing and point to system guys who put up huge numbers in college but don't have the physical tools to translate to the NFL.(think Danny Wuerfell) So, you can't ignore measureables either. Like you said, it takes both to make a good player.

Definitely, it takes a good mix of both, you can't just dismiss one or the other thinking that's all it takes.....

 

[Saints382]

that was probaly 1 of the WORST saints draft, in general...

except we got Stinch and Holland (who probaly will leave anyways).

 

[Saint Greg]

If I remember correctly we even traded away a 1st round pick to move up and draft this guy???

Yeah we had an extra first from the Ricky Williams trade. We were picking like 16th and 17th or 17th and 18th...something like that. I remember being excited because with those two picks and our second, we could've gotten three good defensive players. Instead we traded all three picks to move up in the first and second. We ended up with Sullivan and Stinchcomb. At least Stinch finally paid off...for one year at least.

 

[hardhead233]

Yeah we had an extra first from the Ricky Williams trade. We were picking like 16th and 17th or 17th and 18th...something like that. I remember being excited because with those two picks and our second, we could've gotten three good defensive players. Instead we traded all three picks to move up in the first and second. We ended up with Sullivan and Stinchcomb. At least Stinch finally paid off...for one year at least.

Exactly, I was so angry about them doing what they did, that's why when I hear them praise Loomis(rightfully so he's had a fantastic draft this year) so much I can't help but think of that draft.... Maybe it was Haslett's fault.... blame the guy that's gone, that's what you do right...hahhah

 

[fahad]

what ever happened could not be changed but our team management should learn a valuable lesson.

 

[Saint Greg]

Exactly, I was so angry about them doing what they did, that's why when I hear them praise Loomis(rightfully so he's had a fantastic draft this year) so much I can't help but think of that draft.... Maybe it was Haslett's fault.... blame the guy that's gone, that's what you do right...hahhah

I don't think Loomis is making the personnel decisions. He's a money guy. I think credit for the 03 draft goes to Haslett/Mueller....and the 06 draft Payton/Mueller.

 

[hardhead233]

what ever happened could not be changed but our team management should learn a valuable lesson.

No doubt man what's done is done, I'm trying to forget those dark days(maybe not as dark as the Cardinals or Lions) of bombing out at the end of the season just missing the playoffs and making stupid front office decisions leading to year after year of underachievement.

 

[hammernnails]

The Jets screwed us when they picked that DT Dwayne Robertson before us.... I think Has was going to select him but lost out and took the #2 DT ..... Who knows what kind of deals went down that day??...I remember Kipers review of Sullivan was impressive .. shot of him shattering the O-line and destroying the QB.... but this never translated in the NFL.... a HORRIBLE mistake by our FO.....

 

[AARPSaint]

The mistake there was not so much picking a player who became a bust. The mistake was trading up and picking for need instead of for best player available. People were surprised when they picked Will Smith when they already had Charles Grant and Darren Howard. People were surprised when they picked Deuce McAllister when they already had Ricky Williams. Pick the best player available. If you're duplicating a strength on your team, make a trade and/or save some cap money.

Looked at as a whole, that was probably the worst draft in the history of the Saints.

 

[hammernnails]

The mistake there was not so much picking a player who became a bust. The mistake was trading up and picking for need instead of for best player available. People were surprised when they picked Will Smith when they already had Charles Grant and Darren Howard. People were surprised when they picked Deuce McAllister when they already had Ricky Williams. Pick the best player available. If you're duplicating a strength on your team, make a trade and/or save some cap money.

Looked at as a whole, that was probably the worst draft in the history of the Saints.

I agree ... but I also disagree...... I am a 100% for pickin BPA but in the situation we were in that year we all thought we were a player or 2 away from being very good contenders... I did not know all that much about sullivan but I knew we needed a DT ... the pick made SOME sense at the time but I think the trade up made everyone sick...whatever you do .. dont go back to that draft to see who we 'coulda' picked at 17 & 18..... that will really make you sick!!