Renewed debate over autism/vaccine link (1 Viewer)

[tenordas]

Article on CNN.com about the lawsuit, file dby a neurologist:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/03/05/autism.vaccines.ap/index.html

Also, the subject will be discussed tonight on Larry King at 9 pm.

EDIT: This is the first time the vaccine injury fund will have paid a family over autism. The girl's case is specialized because she has a mitochondrial disorder that the court conceded was worsened by thimerasol, the preservative that is under so much scrutiny by autism groups (and has since been eliminated form vaccines). The court used specific language and did not concede that vaccines could cause autism. Still, there some 5,000 other cases pending and this is certainly seen by them as a victory.
It will be interesting to see where this goes and what the legal and medical communities are willing to say about the matter.

 

[Jazzbo]

Thanks for the heads up, I'm definitely interested in this.

 

[SWJJ]

A friend of mine has 2 autisic children, The oldest got fully vaccinated, and is more introverted, the youngest she refused the vaccines, he is a much milder case than his older sister.

Now this is far from conclusive proof, but she believes VERY strongly that there is a correlation.

 

[tenordas]

I'm interested to see who Larry King brings on tonight to discuss this. Surely he'll have the neurologist/nurse husband and wife, but what "experts" will appear? I wonder if the famous grandmother will be on and if she'll have changed her stance toward vaccines at all over this ruling.

We know a lot of people who are adamant about the vaccine thing. We have always been somewhat ambiguous toward it, though Kellye made very sure that thimerosol wasn't in the vaccines given to our younger kids when they got vaccines (some of which we put off until later and we had separate the giving of them rather than so many at once), so we certainly felt it was an important enough factor to try to avoid. Whether it really played a part in oldest son's condition, I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure.
At the very least, I'm glad the preservative is gone. Injecting a child even with small amounts of a mercury-based substance couldn't be helpful at any rate.

 

[Pasty]

My father-in-law had polio as a child, and my son has autism. I think that we should rid vaccines of mercury, but I also don't think they caused my kid's autism. I also believe firmly that vaccines serve a positive purpose that too often gets overlooked in this debate.

My father-in-law would not have suffered in the iron lung nor would he have suffered the indignity of post-polio syndrome in his adulthood if he had been able to receive the polio vaccine.

As for my kid's autism, I'm more interested in making his life better now than in finding a cause or punishing the "bad guys" that made him what he is (and what he is is pretty damn cool).

But I do sympathize with people whose kids are far worse off than my own, and understand their need to find blame. I simply don't have that need.

Here's an interesting blog on the subject, written by a dad of an autistic kid: http://notmercury.blogspot.com/2006/02/i-was-wrong.html

 

[Jazzbo]

My wife and I feel about the same on this topic as tenordas and Pasty. We're naturally curious about any findings they come across about what might cause autism, but you can't cry over spilled milk when there's the task of dealing with the matter at hand. And, yes, there are things about our daughter's autism that I've come to appreciate (e.g., she's got a real high threshold of pain, doesn't get bent out of shape easily over most things and she's happy and giddy most of the time). If someone came up with a pill that magically cured autism, It would be a mixed blessing, because if she was suddenly not autistic, she would be a stranger to us. Sounds weird, I know.

 

[TnSaint]

I'm very curious as my son is 4 and was diagnosed with autism at age 2. My ex-wife and I believe that the immunizations definitely played a factor in his autism as we could see a significant change in him after the immunizations.

 

[Scott B]

question for y'all: at which cycle of vaccination is the alleged problem starting, i.e. four month shots, six month shots, 1 year shots?

 

[saint-58]

question for y'all: at which cycle of vaccination is the alleged problem starting, i.e. four month shots, six month shots, 1 year shots?

I know a couple who had there son diagnosed at eighteen months.That's the youngest with the group of people that I know of. Many of the couples I know had there children diagnosed at 3 to 4 years old.

Our son was diagnosed at 6 years old. He was originally diagnosed at 4 with ADHD with the school system, but we had him seen by a physchiatrist after the pediatrician we were seeing thought his problems were more than just ADHD. That's when he was tested and diagnosed with Asbergers.

 

[primadox]

I saw this first on my autism email group; there are warnings out about the proper disposal of CFL's (compact fluorescent lights; those spiral-shaped bulbs), since they contain mercury. There's even a list of how to dispose of a broken bulb at the EPA site:
http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm#flourescent

The clean-up process is pretty detailed, and certainly highlights the fact that mercury is dangerous...and yet we're injecting in into our kids, sometimes with multiple vaccines at one time?? Yea, right...

I don't think mercury necessarily causesautism (although when you compare the symptoms of mercury poisoning with the symtoms of autism, they're almost identical) ...but I do think it's one of the many triggers of autism, which is why some kids can get all those vaccines and not be bothered and others are affected greatly. Connor's prematurity triggered his, IMO, since he never developed appropriately and then regressed. But I do think that there are many kids who were genetically predisposed to autism, and the vaccines triggered it, either through the overload of mercury or the overload to their immune system. As Drew said, we split up our kids' vaccines, even when the doctors would warn us about the extra co-pays (it's a shame that many kids' vaccines are given in huge groups out of convenience...), and we'd ask and ask again if thimerosal was in the batch. I'm all for vaccines, but IMO they give too many at once, and there's some that I don't think are necessary.

FWIW, here's some information from CHOP:

In the early 1950s, there were four vaccines: diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis and smallpox. Because three of these vaccines were combined into a single shot (DTP), children received five shots by the time they were 2 years old and not more than one shot at a single visit.

By the mid-1980s, there were seven vaccines: diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, measles, mumps, rubella and polio. Because six of these vaccines were combined into two shots (DTP and MMR), and one, the polio vaccine, was given by mouth, children still received five shots by the time they were 2 years old and not more than one shot at a single visit.

Since the mid-1980s, many vaccines have been added to the schedule. Hib vaccine was added in the late-1980s. In the 1990s, hepatitis B and varicella vaccines were added and the polio vaccine shot (IPV) replaced the oral polio vaccine (OPV). In the year 2000, the pneumococcal vaccine was added and since 2004 the influenza, hepatitis A and rotavirus vaccines were added. Now, children could receive as many as 24 shots by 2 years of age and five shots in a single visit!

http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/division/generic.jsp?id=75700

And autism rates continue to increase. Much of the increase is due to better diagnosis, but I have to believe that the amount of mercury in the ever-increasing number of vaccines (prior to thimerosal being removed) has something to do with it. And as I said to begin with, if this mercury in vaccines is "nothing we need to worry about", why are there so many precautions that need to be taken in the simple removal of a broken lightbulb with mercury??

Vaccines are good things...but caution and common sense should rule as well. Yes, we vaccinate our kids. But cautiously and carefully.

 

[primadox]

If someone came up with a pill that magically cured autism, It would be a mixed blessing, because if she was suddenly not autistic, she would be a stranger to us. Sounds weird, I know.

Doesn't sound weird to me at all...one aspect of our son's autism is his pure, genuine sweetness, and lack of agenda that you see in most 10 year old boys. If he was "cured" and this aspect of his personality disappeared, he would be a stranger to us. I understand completely; his autism is a huge part of who he is, and a huge part of what makes him so special.

 

[primadox]

question for y'all: at which cycle of vaccination is the alleged problem starting, i.e. four month shots, six month shots, 1 year shots?

I think most reported trouble with the MMR vaccine; whether it's that shot in particular or the fact that it's in combination with so many other shots at once, I don't know. But the first MMR at 12-18 months seems to be the trigger for many cases, from what I've read.

 

[SaintsBrazil]

Didn't Jenny McCarthey say on (sigh) Oprah, that she believed that autism was somewhat reversible with some special diet? Any truth to that?

 

[Jazzbo]

Didn't Jenny McCarthey say on (sigh) Oprah, that she believed that autism was somewhat reversible with some special diet? Any truth to that?

I didn't hear about that per se, but we have found that our daughter's behavioral issues diminish when she doesn't have foods with yeast or sugar. So yes, what autistic people eat can certainly have a bearing on the severity of their symptoms.

 

[SaintsBrazil]

That's kind of in line with what she said, though I only watched10 minutes of the show. Evidently her kid is autistic and she has seen dramatic improvement with a well planned diet. It's to the point where she thinks/hopes that by doing this long term, the autism will be significantly reversed.