Reset is not possible (7 Viewers)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

The notion of a big reset sounds attractive to a fed up fanbase. I get it, and in general I agree, it probably should happen or needs to happen.

It can't.

There's too much money tied up in aging veterans and old contracts to allow for a successful overhaul. We lead the league in dead cap in 2025, and ripping the bandaid off a wound before it's finished healing wouldn't be considered smart would it?

Top 3 Reasons you can't do a major reset.

#1 - Derek Carr counts 18.3% against the cap next year. Whatever wins you get he's going to be part of the reason you get them in 2025, oddly enough we haven't won a single game he didn't play this year. Should show his value despite the hate he receives. More importantly any new HC you bring in is basically going to be told he has to work w/ Carr in 2025. We aren't picking high enough to secure one of the top QB's and more importantly, Derek carr was among the top 5 QB's in the league this year in Passer Rating. Blowing it up, and putting him in yet another new offensive system, after he just finished w/ the highest QB rating of his career in 2024 would not be smart business.

#2 - Aging veterans galore. Cam Jordan, Taysom Hill, Demario Davis, Tyrann Mathieu, Nathan Shepherd, Alvin Kamara all account for 25.01% of the cap. This is the 30 and up club and if you want to add Carr it would be over 43% of you cap invested in guys past their FB prime. Oh yeah, I forgot to add Ramczy's 10.64% cap hit that pushes it to 53% of your roster. None of those guys are getting cut next year, not even Cam Jordan. At the least, Nathan Shepherd and his 2.38% still keeps you at 50% of your roster.

#3 - Not enough cap space to remake roster in a new coaches image. In 2006, Payton's brought in over 30 new players to add to his 53 man roster. Thats roughly a 50% overhaul and that included, trades, free agents, and the '06 draft class. The impossible part of my thread title hits home here. A new coach will not be able to come in and rebuild the culture lol. He won't be able to bring in his guys, that fit his scheme, and his way of doing things. He'll be outnumbered by guys who are tenured here in doing things a certain way. Who's going to be "his guys"?


At the very least you'll have to wait til 2026 if you truly want that "reset" to happen in a clean way. I mean you can do it, but it's going to be even more of a feces film than it already is. In 2026 you'll have the cap space to sign players, and the ability to move on from that aging core. Carr's dead cap hit will drop into the 28mil range making it easier to move on from him. That way a new coach and or offensive scheme can bring their own guy(s) in. Hell even w/ a top 10 draft pick in 2025 based on reports this draft is wack, we could easily move back and stock pile picks for 2026 that put us in better position to draft a new QB and properly do a reset.


The best consolation prize I can give anyone making it this far in the thread is YES.... Loomis brilliantly screwed up by convincing themselves and the fan base that we were a LT and a WR away from getting back to the playoffs in 2022. The rebuild potentially should have started then, but it didn't and instead we dug the hole deeper. It's water under the bridge now, but there's no reason to make it worse when the timing is bad.

And 2025 for many reasons isn't a great time to do it and do it well!

Sincerely LL Cool J

 

[St.Dan]

The notion of a big reset sounds attractive to a fed up fanbase. I get it, and in general I agree, it probably should happen or needs to happen.

It can't.

There's too much money tied up in aging veterans and old contracts to allow for a successful overhaul. We lead the league in dead cap in 2025, and ripping the bandaid off a wound before it's finished healing wouldn't be considered smart would it?

Top 3 Reasons you can't do a major reset.

#1 - Derek Carr counts 18.3% against the cap next year. Whatever wins you get he's going to be part of the reason you get them in 2025, oddly enough we haven't won a single game he didn't play this year. Should show his value despite the hate he receives. More importantly any new HC you bring in is basically going to be told he has to work w/ Carr in 2025. We aren't picking high enough to secure one of the top QB's and more importantly, Derek carr was among the top 5 QB's in the league this year in Passer Rating. Blowing it up, and putting him in yet another new offensive system, after he just finished w/ the highest QB rating of his career in 2024 would not be smart business.

#2 - Aging veterans galore. Cam Jordan, Taysom Hill, Demario Davis, Tyrann Mathieu, Nathan Shepherd, Alvin Kamara all account for 25.01% of the cap. This is the 30 and up club and if you want to add Carr it would be over 43% of you cap invested in guys past their FB prime. Oh yeah, I forgot to add Ramczy's 10.64% ca[ jot tp that to push it to 53% of your roster. None of those guys are getting cut next year, not even Cam Jordan. At the least, Nathan Shepherd and his 2.38% still keeps you at 50% of your roster.

#3 - Not enough cap space to remake roster in a new coaches image. In 2006, Payton's brought in over 30 new players to add to his 53 man roster. Thats roughly a 50% overhaul and that included, trades, free agents, and the 06 draft class. The impossible part of my thread title hits home here. A new coach will not be able to come in and rebuild the culture lol. He won't be able to bring in his guys, that fit his scheme, and his way of doing things. He'll be outnumbered by guys who are tenured here in doing things a certain way.


At the very least you'll have to wait til 2026 if you truly want that "reset" to happen in a clean way. I mean you can do it, but it's going to be even more of a feces film than it already is. In 2026 you'll have the cap space to sign players, and the ability to move on from that aging core. Carr's dead cap hit will drop into the 28mil range making it easier to move on from him. That way a new coach and or offensive scheme can bring their own guy(s) in. Hell even w/ a top 10 draft pick in 2025 based on reports this draft is wack, we could easily move back and stock pile picks for 2026 that put us in better position to draft a new QB and properly do a reset.


The best consolation prize I can give anyone making it this far in the thread is YES.... Loomis brilliantly screwed up by convincing themselves and the fan base that we were a LT and a WR away from getting back to the playoffs in 2022. The rebuild potentially should have started then, but it didn't and instead we dug the whole a bit deeper. It's water under the bridge now, but there's no reason to make it worse when the timing is bad.

And 2025 for many reasons isn't s great time to do it and do it well,

Sincerely LL Cool J

Slight consolation is that there aren't any top QBs this year anyway, as many posters have stated in the past several weeks. Cam Ward and Shedeur Sanders aren't guys I'd want here anyway. Every other name I see is a mid-round grade at best.

The best thing that can be done, given the cap and salary situations, is to draft the trenches early and often. O-line and d-line; doesn't matter which one you go with in the first round. The McCoy injury toppled the house of cards that 2-0 start was built on. And the d-line needs depth all the way across, starting with the interior middle. It's the least that can be done for whoever gets to coach up these QBs likely to be on the roster next year.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Slight consolation is that there aren't any top QBs this year anyway, as many posters have stated in the past several weeks. Cam Ward and Shedeur Sanders aren't guys I'd want here anyway. Every other name I see is a mid-round grade at best.

The best thing can be done, given the cap and salary situations, is to draft the trenches early and often. O-line and d-line; doesn't matter which you go with the first pick. The McCoy injury toppled the house of cards that 2-0 start was built on. And the d-line needs depth all the way across, starting with the interior middle. It's the least that can be done for whoever gets to coach up these QBs likely to be on the roster next year.

It's an unpopular opinion but it makes too much sense to Keep Rizzi and the offensive staff for next year since they were aquired w/ Carr in mind. On the defensive side there's a legit argument to scrap the defense but the core is very much attuned to this scheme. I'd potentially promote ourr LB coach to DC and let him bring in his own staff and build his own identity.

Though Kubiak hasn't been all world, and has his flaws, I don't believe he got a fair shake w/ all the injuries. #1QB, #1 WR, #2 WR, #1 TE, #1 C, #1 LG, #1 RG, #4 WR ,#2 TE, #2 RB, and now #1 RB all missed SIGNIFICANT time this year. One could argue he did OK w/ what he had, and what he had wasn't much when you step back and look at the bigger picture.

 

[St.Dan]

It's an unpopular opinion but it makes too much sense to Keep Rizzi and the offensive staff for next year since they were aquired w/ Carr in mind. On the defensive side there's a legit argument to scrap the defense but the core is very much attuned to this scheme. I'd potentially promote ourr LB coach to DC and let him bring in his own staff and build his own identity.

Though Kubiak hasn't been all world, and has his flaws, I don't believe he got a fair shake w/ all the injuries. #1QB, #1 WR, #2 WR, #1 TE, #1 C, #1 LG, #1 RG, #4 WR ,#2 TE, #2 RB, and now #1 RB all missed SIGNIFICANT time this year. One could argue he did OK w/ what he had, and what he had wasn't much when you step back and look at the bigger picture.

Fair assessment as it relates to Kubiak, surely.

Also, Glenn isn't a popular choice since he's from the defensive side of the ball. But what about a combo of Glenn as HC and KK calling the offense, though? If only it was all a video game

 

[Saints 318]

It's an unpopular opinion but it makes too much sense to Keep Rizzi and the offensive staff for next year since they were aquired w/ Carr in mind. On the defensive side there's a legit argument to scrap the defense but the core is very much attuned to this scheme. I'd potentially promote ourr LB coach to DC and let him bring in his own staff and build his own identity.

Though Kubiak hasn't been all world, and has his flaws, I don't believe he got a fair shake w/ all the injuries. #1QB, #1 WR, #2 WR, #1 TE, #1 C, #1 LG, #1 RG, #4 WR ,#2 TE, #2 RB, and now #1 RB all missed SIGNIFICANT time this year. One could argue he did OK w/ what he had, and what he had wasn't much when you step back and look at the bigger picture.

The defensive scheme isn’t working no more and need change. We don’t have the players to play man to man 90% of the times like we used to do which is what DA scheme was built around.

 

[AARPSaint]

Can the current front office be convinced NOT TO TRADE UP? Let’s say this is in general a bad draft class. Is the current front office ready to acknowledge it? Will the 2026 class likely be better or worse? Would the wisest thing be to trade down for a better draft class?

Either way, the trading up just has to stop. The Saints need help everywhere, so targeting certain players in the draft makes little sense.

 

[Eeyore]

I agree. Let the old dudes play out their contracts. Do the bare minimum in terms of restructuring to comply with the cap. Trade back for picks next year and maybe do it again.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Anyone who thinks resetting means a single offseason roster massacre flat out has no idea what they are talking about. The Saints are already one year into their reset. Notice all the moves Loomis DID NOT make this year. He restructured just enough to get under the cap and have space for emergency signings. He didn't make any outlandish moves for free agents. He was actually trying to trade back in the draft. He traded Lattimore to accumulate more picks next year and the move was already brilliant when he did it, and it looks more and more brilliant with every game Lattimore misses. He's accelerated Lattimore's cap hit in exchange for having an easier to manage cap one year sooner.

The Saints are already silently rebuilding, I just don't think people have really been paying attention.

 

[St. Geezy]

I don’t think we’ll go in this direction, and I certainly see the cons, but I’d be down to run it back with this group and Rizzi one more time, with a few holes shored up along with a prayer for better health.

That said, I’m also down for a new, young offensive minded HC.

I can see arguments for either direction and I am okay with whatever decision they choose. Just don’t know if the overall fanbase would be down for status-quo, and it may not be good for the box office/suites/sponsor end of things either, which could ultimately drive the decision to change things up.

This fanbase could definitely use a jolt to rejuvenate things, whether it’s on the coaching end or player personnel wise.

 

[St. Geezy]

Anyone who thinks resetting means a single offseason roster massacre flat out has no idea what they are talking about. The Saints are already one year into their reset. Notice all the moves Loomis DID NOT make this year. He restructured just enough to get under the cap and have space for emergency signings. He didn't make any outlandish moves for free agents. He was actually trying to trade back in the draft. He traded Lattimore to accumulate more picks next year and the move was already brilliant when he did it, and it looks more and more brilliant with every game Lattimore misses. He's accelerated Lattimore's cap hit in exchange for having an easier to manage cap one year sooner.

The Saints are already silently rebuilding, I just don't think people have really been paying attention.

Correct. He made it very clear that they’re calming things down for a reload/reset, and somehow this fact has now been weaponized against him and his accounting management style. “See, we can’t sign anyone now! Loomis sucks!”

We could have totally done more this off-season if we wanted to, but we have instead decided to sit back and reset to create a better opportunity for later.

 

[UpHere]

I'm okay with being legit terrible for a few years in order to reset this franchise - i've gone through some pretty long painful rebuild years as a fan in other sports - after it's over it's worth it

 

[SAINTSFAN]

It's an unpopular opinion but it makes too much sense to Keep Rizzi and the offensive staff for next year since they were aquired w/ Carr in mind. On the defensive side there's a legit argument to scrap the defense but the core is very much attuned to this scheme. I'd potentially promote ourr LB coach to DC and let him bring in his own staff and build his own identity.

Though Kubiak hasn't been all world, and has his flaws, I don't believe he got a fair shake w/ all the injuries. #1QB, #1 WR, #2 WR, #1 TE, #1 C, #1 LG, #1 RG, #4 WR ,#2 TE, #2 RB, and now #1 RB all missed SIGNIFICANT time this year. One could argue he did OK w/ what he had, and what he had wasn't much when you step back and look at the bigger picture.

Makes zero sense to keep Rizzi around. While a reset cannot occur in one offseason, it can begin this offseason and really has to.

 

[guillermo]

The notion of a big reset sounds attractive to a fed up fanbase. I get it, and in general I agree, it probably should happen or needs to happen.

It can't.

There's too much money tied up in aging veterans and old contracts to allow for a successful overhaul. We lead the league in dead cap in 2025, and ripping the bandaid off a wound before it's finished healing wouldn't be considered smart would it?

Top 3 Reasons you can't do a major reset.

#1 - Derek Carr counts 18.3% against the cap next year. Whatever wins you get he's going to be part of the reason you get them in 2025, oddly enough we haven't won a single game he didn't play this year. Should show his value despite the hate he receives. More importantly any new HC you bring in is basically going to be told he has to work w/ Carr in 2025. We aren't picking high enough to secure one of the top QB's and more importantly, Derek carr was among the top 5 QB's in the league this year in Passer Rating. Blowing it up, and putting him in yet another new offensive system, after he just finished w/ the highest QB rating of his career in 2024 would not be smart business.

#2 - Aging veterans galore. Cam Jordan, Taysom Hill, Demario Davis, Tyrann Mathieu, Nathan Shepherd, Alvin Kamara all account for 25.01% of the cap. This is the 30 and up club and if you want to add Carr it would be over 43% of you cap invested in guys past their FB prime. Oh yeah, I forgot to add Ramczy's 10.64% cap hit that pushes it to 53% of your roster. None of those guys are getting cut next year, not even Cam Jordan. At the least, Nathan Shepherd and his 2.38% still keeps you at 50% of your roster.

#3 - Not enough cap space to remake roster in a new coaches image. In 2006, Payton's brought in over 30 new players to add to his 53 man roster. Thats roughly a 50% overhaul and that included, trades, free agents, and the '06 draft class. The impossible part of my thread title hits home here. A new coach will not be able to come in and rebuild the culture lol. He won't be able to bring in his guys, that fit his scheme, and his way of doing things. He'll be outnumbered by guys who are tenured here in doing things a certain way. Who's going to be "his guys"?


At the very least you'll have to wait til 2026 if you truly want that "reset" to happen in a clean way. I mean you can do it, but it's going to be even more of a feces film than it already is. In 2026 you'll have the cap space to sign players, and the ability to move on from that aging core. Carr's dead cap hit will drop into the 28mil range making it easier to move on from him. That way a new coach and or offensive scheme can bring their own guy(s) in. Hell even w/ a top 10 draft pick in 2025 based on reports this draft is wack, we could easily move back and stock pile picks for 2026 that put us in better position to draft a new QB and properly do a reset.


The best consolation prize I can give anyone making it this far in the thread is YES.... Loomis brilliantly screwed up by convincing themselves and the fan base that we were a LT and a WR away from getting back to the playoffs in 2022. The rebuild potentially should have started then, but it didn't and instead we dug the hole deeper. It's water under the bridge now, but there's no reason to make it worse when the timing is bad.

And 2025 for many reasons isn't a great time to do it and do it well!

Sincerely LL Cool J

There are things that can be done now.

- Derek Carr is the perfect quarterback to rebuild the roster around. We start with both lines and some supporting cast to be ready at time when a new franchise quarterback is recruited.

- Bite the bullet when time comes with the veterans. Think twice before extending anyone on our roster.

- invest as much of you can in getting extra picks. Don’t be afraid to trade back or trade good players that will waste their prime and high salaries on a rebuilding roster.

We need new ways to do things. We should stop thinking on a mediocre present and invest on building a promising future.

As most of us, I don’t trust Loomis to lead the next era of saints football. Not because he is incapable, but for his stubbornness of keeping betting all for next season.

 

[Stalwart385]

They run it back next year. Jordan, Davis, Mathieu and Taysom all have one more year on their deal and go void in 2026. 2026 will be the year of catching up and an empty roster. Some of those above will get restructured (into void years) to make the cap. Just a move for the books. No one is worth cutting or trading cap-wise (except Ramczyk). You save like a mil tops. If you look at the situation its pretty clear what happens:

Cut/Retire Ramczyk (~6mil)
Restructure Carr (~30mil)
Restructure McCoy (~6.5 mil)
Restructure Granderson (~5 mil)
Restructure Ruiz (~6mil)
Restructure some combination of Jordan, Davis, Mathieu or Taysom to clear ~10mil+ cap. All expiring contracts with void years.

They could cut guys like Saunders, Williams or Moreau but that would just be to move on. The cap savings are insignificant (~1mil net) and they are the biggest cut savings on the roster. (A cut player is still a roster spot that must be filled with min salary)

There aren't any alternates other than asking guys to take pay cuts or asking other teams to absorb money in trades, which are generally long shots.

So yeah, no matter who the coach is, Carr will be the QB and the roster will be similar. If they draft well and stay healthy they can be competitive. That just hasn't happened for 3 years straight. Injuries plague this roster. Unfortunately, the young core is who can't stay healthy. In 2026 the older players all void, lots of dead money and you're looking at the real reset year.

So any coach coming in will probably need two years of grace just to get a footing.

 

[Stalwart385]

Anyone who thinks resetting means a single offseason roster massacre flat out has no idea what they are talking about. The Saints are already one year into their reset. Notice all the moves Loomis DID NOT make this year. He restructured just enough to get under the cap and have space for emergency signings. He didn't make any outlandish moves for free agents. He was actually trying to trade back in the draft. He traded Lattimore to accumulate more picks next year and the move was already brilliant when he did it, and it looks more and more brilliant with every game Lattimore misses. He's accelerated Lattimore's cap hit in exchange for having an easier to manage cap one year sooner.

The Saints are already silently rebuilding, I just don't think people have really been paying attention.

Yeah I found it funny that people were complaining that they need to stop pushing every offseason. Then he stops pushing and when injuries hit they complain that Loomis didn't do enough to build the roster. As I stated above, everything is lining up for a clean slate after 2026. That started last offseason by not signing any aging players to long contracts. This will probably mean a similar offseason again and a fragile roster again in 2025.