Right now, I believe the most overrated prospect on this board... (1 Viewer)

REALCHRISM

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is Kenny Phillips. I am prepared to discuss the issue. I think he's a top 20 talent, even top 15. And I would not upset if selected him at #10 depending on who else is on the board when we pick. But I think that some people are getting too carried away with the Ed Reed/Sean Taylor hybrid comparisons. I think some people are envisioning a guy with outstanding range who is fluid and can cover with the best of them. I think that when you see Phillips, you see a guy who is very good, but not great. Phillips, in many ways, plays his best ball inside the box sort of like the safeties we have on our team.

His strengths are that he flows to the ball well and can really hit. He rarely misses a tackle and does a great job defending the run. On the other hand, his weaknesses include being over-aggressive at times and he has shown the tendency to get beat over the top. While he is capable of defending a TE, he struggles with slot receivers and plays a bit stiff. He's not terrible in coverage, but it is just not his strength as some perceive it to be.

Overall, he's a good prospect and certainly a first round talent. I do not know that I would rate him in the same class as Taylor or Reed and I think that a guy like LaRon Landry also ranks higher as a prospect. I think a good comparison for Phillips might be Donte Whitner. Phillips tackles better, hits harder but Whitner may actually have more range as a safety. Again, he shouldn't disappoint you but he may not be as great as some believe him to be.
 
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REALCHRISM

REALCHRISM

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We'll never know bro... until he gets drafted... puts on the Fleur, and play in a game we won't know what the kid is capable of.

I can only hope he has Ed Reed/Sean Taylor-type ability... to be honest... Brandon Merriwaeather-type skills would be more than what we got from our FS position this season.

I do know this... KK is our best FS, and that's not saying much. As a matter of fact Roman Harper moved to FS when KK started for JB... I just want a gguy in our secondary that will not let guys run free behind them... maybe I'm alone on this, but for some reason every time a QB would throw a deep ball on our defense I counted it as a catch for the WR before the ball started its downward flight... I want to be able to say "that's a pick" whenever a QB throws a deep ball on us.
Exactly. I agree. I am not saying that Phillips cannot emerge and, as I indicated before, I would not be mad with his selection. I just want us to go into with a realistic view of what type of talent we could be getting in Phillips.
 

BoNcHiE

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See, that's the thing. I do not know if he is Ed Reed-esque. I don't see that in his game. I see a very solid safety who definitely has first round talent but I do not know if he is the ballhawk that Reed was when he came out of Miami. I think the tendency to compare him with Reed and Taylor is due to the fact that they all went to Miami. To me, he is a much better prospect than Merriweather but not at the same level as Reed or Taylor. Again, that's good if you are realisitc about the type of player you are getting. And he could make an immediate impact. But I do not think we should have visions of a guy intercepting the ball at the back of the endzone and taking it back 109 for a touchdown. I think you are more likely to see a guy who plays sounds and does a great job in helping us to stop the run.
Atletically he has the speed of Ed Reed (he runs a 4.4). He is the same size as Sean Taylor was and hits just as hard (Sean Taylor was actually 2 pounds lighter). So the comparisons aren't just that he went to Miami. He plays very smart and is very good in coverage. Obviously his ability to hit and his sure tackling makes him a force in the box also. Physically and mentally he has the god given talent that you can't teach to be like Ed Reed or Sean Taylor. Of course theres a chance he won't be as good, but he is almost if not the same level of prospect that those guys were. Obviously, playing for a much less talented Miami club then those 2 did, his stats may not be as good (they might be IDK), but they are still great.
 
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Paul

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We'll never know bro... until he gets drafted... puts on the Fleur, and play in a game we won't know what the kid is capable of.

I can only hope he has Ed Reed/Sean Taylor-type ability... to be honest... Brandon Merriwaeather-type skills would be more than what we got from our FS position this season.

I do know this... KK is our best FS, and that's not saying much. As a matter of fact Roman Harper moved to FS when KK started for JB... I just want a gguy in our secondary that will not let guys run free behind them... maybe I'm alone on this, but for some reason every time a QB would throw a deep ball on our defense I counted it as a catch for the WR before the ball started its downward flight... I want to be able to say "that's a pick" whenever a QB throws a deep ball on us.
I think the same way. I also think that the tendencies to compare him to Reed and Taylor have to do with the fact that they are/were (RIP), top notch safeties, and that's what we're hoping to get here. Personally, he is an upgrade to the defense, IMO, and depending upon who else is there at 10, I'd take him. It just depends, and we never know what the Saints have in the works as far as a trade ot whatnot.
 
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REALCHRISM

REALCHRISM

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Atletically he has the speed of Ed Reed (he runs a 4.4). He is the same size as Sean Taylor was and hits just as hard (exactly the same size). So the comparisons aren't just that he went to Miami. He plays very smart and is very good in coverage. Obviously his ability to hit and his sure tackling makes him a force in the box also. Physically and mentally he has the god given talent that you can't teach to be like Ed Reed or Sean Taylor. Of course theres a chance he won't be as good, but he is almost if not the same level of prospect that those guys were. Obviously, playing for a much less talented Miami club then those 2 did, his stats aren't as good, but they are still great.
Well, I am not saying he won't be good. He will be. But comparing speed and ability are two different things. He has the physical talent. But I have watched him closely for the last two seasons and I have seen a guy that does his best when he is down in the box or when he is utilized to cover a TE. I have seem him struggle in coverage and bite on the first move by a WR, which has caused him to get beat deep. No player is perfect and so we both recognize that Phillips, like any other, will have things to work on at the next level. But I just tend to think that he's a bit overrated on this site so far because a lot of people see him as a hybrid between Ed Reed and Sean Taylor when he actually looks to be just a sound, above average safety with the type of talents to make an immediate impact at the next level.
 

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Well, I am not saying he won't be good. He will be. But comparing speed and ability are two different things. He has the physical talent. But I have watched him closely for the last two seasons and I have seen a guy that does his best when he is down in the box or when he is utilized to cover a TE. I have seem him struggle in coverage and bite on the first move by a WR, which has caused him to get beat deep. No player is perfect and so we both recognize that Phillips, like any other, will have things to work on at the next level. But I just tend to think that he's a bit overrated on this site so far because a lot of people see him as a hybrid between Ed Reed and Sean Taylor when he actually looks to be just a sound, above average safety with the type of talents to make an immediate impact at the next level.
People say hes a hybrid Reed/Taylor because of the physical aspects.
 
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REALCHRISM

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People say hes a hybrid Reed/Taylor because of the physical aspects.
Right Bonchie, and I understand that fully. But what I am suggesting is that those physical attributes have not totally translated on the field. He's a solid player, a definite first rounder and a guy I would not be upset with if we selected him. But when those comparisons are made--while they are made on the basis of physical comparisons--people begin to imagine that he would bring to the table a combination of what those two players bring to the table and that has not been the case thus far.
 

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From NFLDraftScout.com
ANALYSIS


Positives: Has a physique with adequate muscle definition, tight waist and hips, good bubble and thick thighs … Solid student athlete who has no problems taking the plays from the board to the field … Spends extra time reviewing film and is well liked by the staff and teammates … Shows good quickness, agility and balance with above average change of direction and flexibility … Quick to sniff out the pass play and has an adequate closing burst on the ball … Not a speed burner, but comes to the line of scrimmage quickly to support the run and has enough range to handle two-deep coverage … Can play centerfield, time his jumps and adjust to the ball in flight … Provides a decent thump upon contact in the open field … Shows fluid hips and balance through his backpedal, displaying the speed to stay with backs and tight ends and good plant agility to burst out of his breaks … Can flip his hips, change direction and turn immediately to get an early break on the ball … His field instincts are evident when playing in zone coverage, doing a good job of keeping plays in front of him … Shows urgency to finish and has excellent timing ability going up for the ball … Has natural hands for the interception and is capable of catching the ball when working in a crowd … His body control and balance allow him to stay tight on the receiver's hips in short area man coverage … Has adequate strength, but will collide and hit with explosion when he gets a good bead on the receiver … Takes good angles in pursuit and has the burst to cover ground with the ball in the air … Stays in control working in space and knows how to keep his pads low to wrap and secure when tackling.


Negatives: Not as effective defending vs. the run as he is in pass coverage … He is not around the line much, as size and strength issues see him get stymied when trying to face up to offensive linemen … Needs to use his hands with more force in attempts to press and jam before the receiver is able to get into the route … More of a chess master who will try to finesse on the play rather than step up and play with aggression (needs to develop a mean streak) … Gets bounced around a bit working near the pile, lacking the raw strength to stack and control in run force (only one stop behind the line of scrimmage in 36 games) … Best when making plays in front of him, as he has adequate speed, but not the sudden burst of acceleration to handle the speedier receivers in the deep zone.

Workout:
4.47 40-yard
37 1/2-inch vertical leap
9-10 broad jump
13 reps of 225 pounds


From Football.com
Strengths: Covers good ground in zone defense. Won’t give up many deep passes. Is solid in run support. Keeps his feet and closes quickly. Is good with the ball in the air. Rarely takes false steps.

Concerns: Undersized. Can be outmuscled by bigger wide receivers and tight ends. Will give up some completions in man coverage.

Overall: a very steady performer and should be a starter at some point down the road in the NFL. He is the best free safety available.


Oops, my bad, those scouting reports were all about Josh Bullocks. :hihi:

Kinda makes you wonder about scouting reports huh?
 

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Atletically he has the speed of Ed Reed (he runs a 4.4). He is the same size as Sean Taylor was and hits just as hard (Sean Taylor was actually 2 pounds lighter). So the comparisons aren't just that he went to Miami. He plays very smart and is very good in coverage. Obviously his ability to hit and his sure tackling makes him a force in the box also. Physically and mentally he has the god given talent that you can't teach to be like Ed Reed or Sean Taylor. Of course theres a chance he won't be as good, but he is almost if not the same level of prospect that those guys were. Obviously, playing for a much less talented Miami club then those 2 did, his stats may not be as good (they might be IDK), but they are still great.
He hits nowhere near as hard as Sean Taylor. (This is coming from a Miami fan, and someone who watched every single game thisyear and the past 8 or 9 years, and has been to over 40 of their games, including plenty Taylor played in)
He may have the speed of Ed Reed but he doesn't have the awareness or ability to break on the ball. He can tackle great, but he goes for the big hit too much.
Also, his stats aren't anywhere near great thisyear.


I love KP and all, but I'm not sure if he's worth a 10th pick. He won't be there in the second, without a doubt, because Dallas and Carolina are showing interest in him for sure.
I'm all for taking him, IF he's the BPA, which I doubt he will be.


@OP I've been thinking he was very over-rated on this board for a while, as well.


EDIT: I'm not saying he's not a great athlete, hell, he's an amazing athlete, but he's nowhere near the level Ed Reed and Sean Taylor were when they entered the NFL.
 
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Dave

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Phillips is good, but I agree that he is overrated on this board.
 

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They are all overrated at the #10 slot to me. If Ellis is there I would take him but other than that I would trade down and get more picks. They just all seem like a reach to me at 10.
 

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See, that's the thing. I do not know if he is Ed Reed-esque. I don't see that in his game. I see a very solid safety who definitely has first round talent but I do not know if he is the ballhawk that Reed was when he came out of Miami. I think the tendency to compare him with Reed and Taylor is due to the fact that they all went to Miami. To me, he is a much better prospect than Merriweather but not at the same level as Reed or Taylor. Again, that's good if you are realisitc about the type of player you are getting. And he could make an immediate impact. But I do not think we should have visions of a guy intercepting the ball at the back of the endzone and taking it back 109 for a touchdown. I think you are more likely to see a guy who plays sounds and does a great job in helping us to stop the run.
I hear what you're saying but i'm looking at getting impact guys for this defense. it seems like the way this draft shapes up is it's deep in CB's, Kind of deep in LB's and thin on safety. So I want to take Kenny Phillips, a LB in the 2nd and 2 CB's in the 3rd and 4th. What do you think about Tavares Gooden LB out of Miami?
 

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I see a very solid safety who definitely has first round talent but I do not know if he is the ballhawk that Reed was when he came out of Miami..
If Phillips isn't near the player Reed was....Phillips shouldn't even be a first round pick...since Reed was selected in the mid-20's
 
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REALCHRISM

REALCHRISM

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If Phillips isn't near the player Reed was....Phillips shouldn't even be a first round pick...since Reed was selected in the mid-20's
That's falty logic. Each draft is different. Also, teams are responsible for drafting, which means that players do not get picked where each of their talents suggest they should. I thought Ed Reed was a better safety than Roy Williams. It did not stop the Cowbys from taking Williams in the top 10 while Reed fell to #23 or so. Also, consider that each team has certain needs they look to address.
 

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Sold... if he's there at 10 I don't care who else is on the board... we need an Ed Reed-esque safety back there to erase some mistakes...
Yeah, uh, we bought that farm a few years ago.. Like DWD said, that was Josh Bullock's scouting report..
 

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