Robertson to the bengals has been called off (1 Viewer)

[Saints382]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind Robertson for a 4th or 5th round pick...we need a young DT.

He's purely a 4-3 tackle, and thrived in it till' the 3-4 came.

 

[Rich Jr]

I wish that I could be as optimistic as you, but I don't see more than 25% of chances of getting one of them, I really don't see how both would be available at 10. I wish I am wrong.

I think the surprise may be McFadden available at our turn, making things interesting for a trade. Certainly after us, McFadden may fell up to # 14 to Chicago.

Someone explained it in another thread and I can't find it.

1.) Dolphins- 3-4
2.) Rams- Didn't they just let go a DE? Chris Long is their guy
3.) Falcons- They could use so much but QB is what they need most.
4.) Raiders- Tommy Kelley..They ain't going to pay top 5 money on another DT..
5.)Chiefs- They could go for a DT or OT, they need OT more but it's 50/50.
6.) Jets- 3-4
7.) Pats-3-4
8.) Ravens-3-4
9.) Bengals-Rumored to possibly being moved to a 3-4 they need LB and DT. Probably DT.
10.) We could end up with 1 DT.

 

[St. PJ]

Someone explained it in another thread and I can't find it.

1.) Dolphins- 3-4
2.) Rams- Didn't they just let go a DE? Chris Long is their guy
3.) Falcons- They could use so much but QB is what they need most.
4.) Raiders- Tommy Kelley..They ain't going to pay top 5 money on another DT..
5.)Chiefs- They could go for a DT or OT, they need OT more but it's 50/50.
6.) Jets- 3-4
7.) Pats-3-4
8.) Ravens-3-4
9.) Bengals-Rumored to possibly being moved to a 3-4 they need LB and DT. Probably DT.
10.) We could end up with 1 DT.

My concern is what happens with picks 5-9. You listed the Cheifs possibilities. Either they take Long or DT, or they trade down to a McFadden suiter. I think either the Jets go for Ghulston because they know NE wants him, or no telling, or they trade down to get more picks that they need. New England either grabs Ghulston or Rivers, but trading down is also a possibility as they have a history of doing so. Who knows, maybe they grab McFadden to go with Maroney. Ravens and Bengals I think both would take either DT. That is where I really get scared. I know they run the 34, but I have seen many mocks suggesting both DTs going to each. If Rivers, Ellis, and Dorsey are all gone at 10, I will be upset. Being that the Jets and Cheifs both need more draft picks, and the Patriots have a history of moving back a few spots to stockpile and hoard away more picks, I could see us moving up anywhere from 5-7. I actually hope this happens.

 

[Superfan]

we can trade with the chiefs they always seemed to like us. we can also trade with baltimore since cincy is in their division and would like us to take a DT so the Bengals don't have one and suffer for it.

good lord Dorsey grant smith mcrary. and in the 2nd we get a WLB.

 

[MSUSousaphone]

.....Ravens and Bengals I think both would take either DT. That is where I really get scared. I know they run the 34, but I have seen many mocks suggesting both DTs going to each.....

Not just the 3-4 thing, but the Ravens also have Ngata playing NT. I really don't think they go with another DT...JMO.

 

[DownWithDisease]

Is Robertson even any good? Everything I've seen on him says he's a BUST. He's way overpriced, and I'm not so sure he'll ever be much better than what we already have.

 

[rlemieux]

Robertson has under-achieved since he was drafted. He wasn't great for them in first couple years in the 4-3 (even though he was better than Sullivan). However, when they switched to the 3-4 he was completely out of place (really hurt his development). Robertson has shown flashes though. He has kept himself in good shape, even though he's had to put on some weight to handle the nose in the 3-4. IMHO, a change of teams could be a great thing for him. However, any team that trades for him has to make sure he restructures. No one is going to pay 11 million to an under-achieving tackle. He has talent, and IMHO he could be the perfect rotational guy to a older vet like Brian Young. Robertson was touted as the next Warren Sapp coming out of the draft. He was a beast at Kentucky, but he jumped up the draft boards because he was a workout warrior. If you could gaurantee you could get him to restructure he would be worth a late round pick. He has first round talent, but he hasn't put it all together yet.

I seriously doubt that either Dorsey or Ellis is there at #10, or even #9 for that matter. Unless you're planning on making a jump up to the 6-7 range (at least) he might be a good stop-gap solution that might eventually pay off in the long run. I am sure if he is worth getting though, they have already talked to Vilma about his feelings on him. Vilma knows better than anyone what Robertson is capable of and I am sure the coaching staff and front office has talked to Vilma about Robertson already.

 

[LSSpam]

Robertson has under-achieved since he was drafted. He wasn't great for them in first couple years in the 4-3 (even though he was better than Sullivan). However, when they switched to the 3-4 he was completely out of place (really hurt his development). Robertson has shown flashes though. He has kept himself in good shape, even though he's had to put on some weight to handle the nose in the 3-4. IMHO, a change of teams could be a great thing for him. However, any team that trades for him has to make sure he restructures. No one is going to pay 11 million to an under-achieving tackle. He has talent, and IMHO he could be the perfect rotational guy to a older vet like Brian Young. Robertson was touted as the next Warren Sapp coming out of the draft. He was a beast at Kentucky, but he jumped up the draft boards because he was a workout warrior. If you could gaurantee you could get him to restructure he would be worth a late round pick. He has first round talent, but he hasn't put it all together yet.

I seriously doubt that either Dorsey or Ellis is there at #10, or even #9 for that matter. Unless you're planning on making a jump up to the 6-7 range (at least) he might be a good stop-gap solution that might eventually pay off in the long run. I am sure if he is worth getting though, they have already talked to Vilma about his feelings on him. Vilma knows better than anyone what Robertson is capable of and I am sure the coaching staff and front office has talked to Vilma about Robertson already.

You key in on the core problem with Robertson however. Unlike Shaun Rodgers (and Sullivan for that matter) conditioning hasn't been a significant issue for Robertson. And unlike Marcus Stroud, he hasn't had any significant injury. And unlike Albert Haynesworth there aren't a myrid of character issues.

All of which begs the question, what's his excuse then? Though he's been "solid" at times (particularly in the 4-3), he's never sniffed his #4 overall potential. And the normal factors (conditioning, injuries, character) don't seem to apply. All of which suggests . . . he might just not be that good.

I'm not opposed to taking a run at the guy. At the very least he'll be an upgrade over Antwan Lake in my opinion and there's always that "upside" factor. I'd rather not give up anymore 2008 draft picks, but if the staff has a lot of confidence in this move

We do, afterall, have a former teammate of his we can consult on him (Vilma) so we should be making this move (if we do make it) with as good a grasp on what to expect as any other team in the NFL.

 

[guillermo]

Someone explained it in another thread and I can't find it.

1.) Dolphins- 3-4
2.) Rams- Didn't they just let go a DE? Chris Long is their guy
3.) Falcons- They could use so much but QB is what they need most.
4.) Raiders- Tommy Kelley..They ain't going to pay top 5 money on another DT..
5.)Chiefs- They could go for a DT or OT, they need OT more but it's 50/50.
6.) Jets- 3-4
7.) Pats-3-4
8.) Ravens-3-4
9.) Bengals-Rumored to possibly being moved to a 3-4 they need LB and DT. Probably DT.
10.) We could end up with 1 DT.

1) Dolphins already have their 3-4 tackle, traded from Dallas
2) Rams, last year they drafted a defensive end, Carricker and moved him to tackle. I know it's Haslett, but if I were them I get either Dorsey or Ellis and move Carricker to his natural position. Still, I think Jake Long may be a better option here.
3) Falcons, no doubt they need a quaterback, but if they don't think that Ryan is way,and I mean, way better then Brohm, Flacco or Henne, they may go defensive tackle or offensive tackle depending on who is taken at 1 and 2. I don't see the falcons trading up. Why should they?
4) Oakland, their two starters last year were Gerard Warren and Warren Saap. You have to understand that Tommy Kelley sometimes play tackle but not all of the time. I don't know if Ryan would want to use Kelley as a full time tackle but I may presume he prefers to get another defensive tackle and use him along Kelley (instead of Warren in passing situations). There is a strong chance for the raiders to take a defensive tackle, although with them, you never know.
5) Kansas City, another team with several needs, can go quaterback, offensive tackle and defensive tackle, all depending on who is available. I would not rank one position over the other here.
6) Jets, biggest need is a speedy rusher, Gholston may be their choice here.
7) New England, even if Gholston and Long are gone, they may get a speedy rusher like Harvey. Also, I can see the bengals offering whatever they offered for Robertson to the bengals to exchange first rounders. The patriots will gladly do it.
8) Baltimore, Offensive tackle, first priority, after that, quaterback and corner, depending who is available.
9) Bengals, Just got a defensive end, but their biggest need still is pressing the quaterback. They can grab a defensive tackle or a de/olb hybrid if they are indeed moving to the 3-4. Staying in their scheme or moving, doesn't matter, they need to reinforce the interior of their line.
10) Saints, again, not confident on getting one of the tackles, but may be chosing between the first corner or the first linebacker to be taken. They may also be a good place for Dallas to trade up if McFadden is there, since Chicago may be taking him at 14.

So as I see it, 4 of the 10 teams may be targeting one of the defensive tackles, one of the top 10 may be willing to trade down.

To me, the bengals are the ones that will be making this draft interesting for us, they can be in position to trade up, down, or select a player we are targeting.

 

[Albi]

Also, why give up a two draft picks when we stole two starters (Evans and Colston) in the later rounds? We need to get more draft picks and not give them up. I say we follow New England's blueprint and try to stock pile picks and not trade up/trade picks.

 

[MSUSousaphone]

You know what. I do this trade, even for as much as a 3rd, and here's why:

First, the dude may not be playing up to his #4 hype, but he's playing up to a 3rd round hype...and more so. Sure, we have a shot at getting someone as good as him....a slim chance at getting somone better....but the odds are very good that we won't be able to find a player in the 3rd that will reach his level of play. People overvalue draft picks, and this guy will most likely be way better than anyone we get there. A good DT with no character issues OR injury concerns.

"But MSU, his contract is so big."

No it isn't. Not for us. That's like an Eskimo complaining about a trade because the other person wants too much snow.

Sign him to a front loaded contract that after that first year is smaller but can get bigger through incentives. I'm not saying give him the $10 million, but let him keep it big. That way there's more of a chance he'll sign it and not stop the trade AND we'll still have more than enough to re-sign our players, sign a few more lower-tier FAs, and sign our draft picks. PLUS, when it matters, his contract won't be near that large in the following years.

Our DL of Smith, Grant, McCray, Thomas, Young, and Robertson would be among the best in the league and we'd still have our 1st and 2nd to get some more help. Without signing a big guy, we are looking at going into the season with TONS of unused cap space (even if we re-sign a lot of guys).

I understand it might not work because he might not want to come here and he'll stop the trade anyways, or maybe Vilma knows reasons not to get him that we don't, but I would try from what I know, now.

We're like a fat hungry kid in a candy store with a $100 gift card that expires at night but keeps buying Jelly Beans because the good stuff "costs too much."

 

[BigHossTheBoss]

we can trade with the chiefs they always seemed to like us. we can also trade with baltimore since cincy is in their division and would like us to take a DT so the Bengals don't have one and suffer for it.

good lord Dorsey grant smith mcrary. and in the 2nd we get a WLB.

You won't have a second round pick if you want to jump up to 5. Believe me, it's going to cost us at least a 2nd if not our second this year and a second next year.

 

[LSSpam]

Without signing a big guy, we are looking at going into the season with TONS of unused cap space (even if we re-sign a lot of guys).

I don't think you realize how quickly you can run through cap space.

Obviously we don't know how all of the deals are structured just yet, but ballparking it, and using a $39 million dollar free cap space figure as our starting point (which strikes me as generous), minus the rookie cap, we're probably sitting around $15 million as it stands. And any front-loading of Colston, Smith, and/or Evans this year would eat that up pretty quick.

That isn't to say we can't accommodate Robertson at around $4 or so million. You can do a lot if you structure things right. Push some of Colston/Smith/Evans money off until later years or even just not restructure Evans or Colston and plan on tendering them a high RFA offer next year. You can convert a lot of Robertson's deal into signing bonus and extend his contract (likely). You might get Deuce to agree to a pay cut. You cut also cut a veteran like we already did with Brian Simmons (dangling Stinchcomb in a trade I think free's up about $1.65 and might net something like a 5th round pick, mark Campbell is worth $1 million and could probably be replaced for half that with a younger blocking oriented TE like Ghent, Craft is worth $1 million and might be pushed out now, particularly if we draft a CB, etc).

So there are things that can be done, but there is very little chance we go into this year with free cap space. We rarely do. Even when we do have free cap space we almost always use it up by pushing contracts forward or using Likely-To-Be-Earned incentives to squirrel it away for next year.

 

['79 Saints]

They key is restructuring the deal... the parameters have already been put in place for a trade of a DT (see the Bengals original deal and/or the Browns deal for Shaun Rogers).

I think that Robertson would be happy to go to a team with a seemingly better upside than the Bengals, where one former teammate is there already and he at least is surrounded by better coaches and players.

However, I do agree with others that he hasn't fulfilled his potential as the #4 overall pick in the 2003 draft... perhaps a change in scenery will do him some good; perhaps a better scheme, or perhaps not having to live up to a high draft status will all help him in the long run.

I'm not keen on trading away draft picks, but rebuilding our defensive line with a quality rotation is so appealling that the Saints would be foolish NOT to pursue it.

 

[rlemieux]

Word is that Robertson has a bone on bone problem in one of his knee's.