Saints are flying Kafka and Weaver in for 2nd interviews [Interviews completed] (9 Viewers)

[HogsNSaints]

So you would not want Sean Payton as the HC of the Saints? I want to make sure we are very clear on this.

But, yeah, we evaluate QBs very different. Brees was better than Rodgers and Dak isn't much better than Carr.

Payton seldom had to play without Drew here and when he did it was Teddy who was a very good backup or Winston who was a long time starter in Tampa. And he has either had Russel Wilson or Nix in Denver. Whatever you think of Wilson, he's certainly better than any backup that McCarthy has had.

I would take Payton back, but I think his resume is better than McCarthy’s, because I don’t think his situations were as ready-made as MMs.

I think we’ve come to where we are disagreeing and I think that’s the drop-it, fair is fair conclusion we both need.

Brees was special. I get weird about legacy debates - so I would say you can’t overtake Brady for the goat debate because the resume is too overwhelming. Right behind him with resume, needs to be Brees - the 2nd most yards and THE most accurate.

But, I don’t necessarily think stats speak to talent. The only guys I’ve seen that made me question the possibility of their throws and their consistency, while also protecting the ball and not just winging it (gtfo Favre), are Mahomes and Rodgers.

All of this feeds into my overarching point of view. Brees was phenomenally talented and when paired with elite coaching, he’s now #2 on the scale. Mahomes with Reid will eventually pass Brady IMO. Rodgers will fade into the middle top 10 or beyond, even though in my eyes - IF he had a Payton/Reid, Mahomes wouldn’t be chasing Tom Brady. I attribute Rodgers’ lack of legacy to McCarthy not being on par with the the better HCs.

 

[St. Widge]

I would take Payton back, but I think his resume is better than McCarthy’s, because I don’t think his situations were as ready-made as MMs.

I think we’ve come to where we are disagreeing and I think that’s the drop-it, fair is fair conclusion we both need.

Brees was special. I get weird about legacy debates - so I would say you can’t overtake Brady for the goat debate because the resume is too overwhelming. Right behind him with resume, needs to be Brees - the 2nd most yards and THE most accurate.

But, I don’t necessarily think stats speak to talent. The only guys I’ve seen that made me question the possibility of their throws and their consistency, while also protecting the ball and not just winging it (gtfo Favre), are Mahomes and Rodgers.

All of this feeds into my overarching point of view. Brees was phenomenally talented and when paired with elite coaching, he’s now #2 on the scale. Mahomes with Reid will eventually pass Brady IMO. Rodgers will fade into the middle top 10 or beyond, even though in my eyes - IF he had a Payton/Reid, Mahomes wouldn’t be chasing Tom Brady.

If Brees is right behind Brady, doesn't that mean Brees was better than Rodgers? And if so, doesn't that mean that Payton had a better QB than McCarthy?

Regardless, I think when you are comparing the talent of the teams that Payton had to the talent of the teams that McCarthy had, it is very close and so are their records.

Sean and MM's records are nearly identical and their successes in the playoffs are similar and both in the past. The difference between the two is that Payton has now shown that he can still build a roster from scratch. McCarthy hasn't shown he can do that, but he also hasn't been given that opportunity. But Sean was basically MM when he took the Denver job, and every single one of us would have taken Sean at that point even prior to him showing he could start from scratch again.

 

[StudioSaint]

I get what you're saying, but in most careers, if your boss doesn't renew your contract, most people interpret that as being fired.

If your boss doesn't even try to negotiate a new contract with you, that is seen as being fired or moved on from.

If your boss tries to negotiate a new contract with you, that means they value and want to keep you. In that situation, most people don't see that as being fired by the boss. They see it for what it is, which is you wanted to work their and the boss wanted to keep you, but you couldn't come to an agreement on the terms, so you parted ways.

 

[St. Geezy]

I would take Payton back, but I think his resume is better than McCarthy’s, because I don’t think his situations were as ready-made as MMs.

I think we’ve come to where we are disagreeing and I think that’s the drop-it, fair is fair conclusion we both need.

Brees was special. I get weird about legacy debates - so I would say you can’t overtake Brady for the goat debate because the resume is too overwhelming. Right behind him with resume, needs to be Brees - the 2nd most yards and THE most accurate.

But, I don’t necessarily think stats speak to talent. The only guys I’ve seen that made me question the possibility of their throws and their consistency, while also protecting the ball and not just winging it (gtfo Favre), are Mahomes and Rodgers.

All of this feeds into my overarching point of view. Brees was phenomenally talented and when paired with elite coaching, he’s now #2 on the scale. Mahomes with Reid will eventually pass Brady IMO. Rodgers will fade into the middle top 10 or beyond, even though in my eyes - IF he had a Payton/Reid, Mahomes wouldn’t be chasing Tom Brady. I attribute Rodgers’ lack of legacy to McCarthy not being on par with the the better HCs.

I do agree with you on the QB talent part, so that’s something. Rodgers is the most talented passer I’ve watched, though Mahommes is gaining.

Brady and Brees were indeed better quarterbacks though.

 

[Hubig]

Tampa Bay is the reason why I never wanted a defensive headcoach. Tampa has had to replace their OC twice in 2 offseasons.

 

[St. Geezy]

Tampa Bay is the reason why I never wanted a defensive headcoach. Tampa has had to replace their OC twice in 2 offseasons.

Yep! Much lower odds of losing a DC, and if you do, the impact isn’t the same as an offensive loss.

In most years, you only lose your DC if you have an absolute stellar defense, like top 3 ranked…still doubt understand Glenn’s candidacy TBH.

 

[Elvis]

 

[HogsNSaints]

I do agree with you on the QB talent part, so that’s something. Rodgers is the most talented passer I’ve watched, though Mahommes is gaining.

Brady and Brees were indeed better quarterbacks though.

I guess I would attribute what you are alluding to the coaching side of it, though. I think Brees and Brady were better QBs because they had marriages to better football coaches.

 

[St. Geezy]

I guess I would attribute what you are alluding to the coaching side of it, though. I think Brees and Brady were better QBs because they had marriages to better football coaches.

Nah. I think the intangibles that made them better are leadership, ability to make players around them better, uncanny cerebral abilities, competitive drive…those sorts of things.

 

[HogsNSaints]

Nah. I think the intangibles that made them better are leadership, ability to make players around them better, uncanny cerebral abilities, competitive drive…those sorts of things.

Fair enough. I think it was an impact head coach.

 

[HogsNSaints]

But Sean was basically MM when he took the Denver job, and every single one of us would have taken Sean at that point even prior to him showing he could start from scratch again.

No, Sean Payton left his 1st HC job in New Orleans by his own choice, with a very sad fanbase that did not want to see him go. He has taken his second job and reignited a downhill franchise.

Mike McCarthy was fired, and then wedged out, at two different franchises and now he is interviewing in New Orleans for his 3rd try. Neither of the first two fanbases would ever ask to have him back. Square peg, round hole.

 

[StudioSaint]

No, Sean Payton left his 1st HC job in New Orleans by his own choice, with a very sad fanbase that did not want to see him go. He has taken his second job and reignited a downhill franchise.

Mike McCarthy was fired, and then wedged out, at two different franchises and now he is interviewing in New Orleans for his 3rd try. Neither of the first two fanbases would ever ask to have him back. Square peg, round hole.

How many NFL front offices seek evaluations of coaches from fans?

The evaluations and opinions of fans are as informed and valuable as they are sought and utilized in the coach hiring process, which is not at all.

 

[HogsNSaints]

How many NFL front offices seek evaluations of coaches from fans?

The evaluations and opinions of fans are as informed and valuable as they are sought and utilized in the coach hiring process, which is not at all.

Okay.. The fans didn’t fire Mike McCarthy.

 

[nakadish]

No, Sean Payton left his 1st HC job in New Orleans by his own choice, with a very sad fanbase that did not want to see him go. He has taken his second job and reignited a downhill franchise.

Mike McCarthy was fired, and then wedged out, at two different franchises and now he is interviewing in New Orleans for his 3rd try. Square peg, round hole.

Call it whatever you want, but their records are pretty much the same, and McCarthy turned a 6-10 team in 2020 into a 12-5 team in one season. If he can do the same with the Saints, I'd definitely take that.

 

[StudioSaint]

Okay.. The fans didn’t fire Mike McCarthy.

And your point is? Obviously, fans don't hire or fire coaches, so their opinions and evaluations of coaches are irrelevant and do not tell us anything about how GM's, coaches and owners see McCarthy.

Have you heard anyone quote a GM, coach. or owner who says McCarthy is not a good coach, besides Dallas and Green Bay?

I value the opinions and evaluations of GM's, owners and coaches over fans. I haven't heard any current or former GM, owner or coach say anything negative about McCarthy during this process. Have you? Please share what you've heard if you have.