Saints candidates Kellen Moore, Joe Brady [and Kliff Kingsbury] compared to Ben Johnson in offensive rankings (1 Viewer)

[SonOfNOLA]

Interesting comparisons between the 3 4 OCs. Ben Johnson has put himself in a class of his own in his first 3 years as NFL OC. But Moore, Brady [and Kingsbury] aren’t that far behind season to season. Moore had very similar rankings to Johnson in his first 3 years of OC. One of the main differences seems to be Johnson has younger elite core players at QB/RB/WR/TE from the start of his OC tenure, compared to Moore, Brady [and Kingsbury] getting the most out of midlevel-aging players at skill positions. Any of the 3 Saints candidates seems like they could be a good HC hire if they’re provided with good personnel from the draft.


Age
Ben Johnson: 38
Kliff Kingsbury: 45
Kellen Moore: 36
Joe Brady: 35

Player background before coaching career
Ben Johnson: walk-on backup QB at UNC 2004-2007

Kliff Kingsbury: 1st team All-Big 12 (‘02), 2x 2nd team All-Big 12, passed for 5,000+ yds-45 TDs (‘02); Sammy Baugh Trophy (‘02), AP National OPOY (‘02) Texas Tech QB 1998-2002; backup NFL QB 2003-2006; backup CFL QB 2007

Kellen Moore: 3x conference OPOY; 2x QBOY; SN’s #1 player (‘11); Heisman finalist Boise State QB 2007-2011; backup NFL QB with Lions and Cowboys 2012-2017

Joe Brady: backup WR at College of William & Mary 2009-2012

Years as OC in NFL
Ben Johnson: 3
Kellen Moore: 6
Joe Brady: 3.5
Kliff Kingsbury: 1 (4 years as NFL HC) (6 years as NCAA HC)

Head Coaches that they were OCs/playcallers under
Ben Johnson: Dan Campbell
Kellen Moore: Mike McCarthy, Brandon Staley, Nick Sirianni
Joe Brady: Matt Rhule, Sean McDermott
Kliff Kingsbury: Kliff Kingsbury (himself), Dan Quinn


Team records while OC (and HC) in NFL
Ben Johnson: 36-15 (.705)
2022: 9-8 Detroit
2023: 12-5 Detroit lost in NFCCG
2024: 14-3 Detroit TBD

Kellen Moore: 57-43 (.570)
2019: 8-8 Dallas
2020: 6-10 Dallas
2021: 12-5 Dallas lost in wild card
2022: 12-5 Dallas lost in divisional
2023: 5-12 LA Chargers
2024: 14-3 Philadelphia TBD

Joe Brady: 29-28 (.508)
2020: 5-11 Carolina
2021: 5-12 Carolina
2023: 6-1 Buffalo lost in divisional
2024: 13-4 Buffalo TBD

Kliff Kingsbury: 40-42-1 (.487)
2019 (HC): 5-10-1 Arizona
2020 (HC): 8-8 Arizona
2021 (HC): 11-6 Arizona lost in wildcard
2022 (HC): 4-13 Arizona
2024 (OC): 12-5 Washington TBD


Total offense per season
Ben Johnson:
2022: 4th - 380.0
2023: 3rd - 394.8
2024: 2nd - 409.5
(Avg rank: 3rd) (Avg yards: 394.8)

Kellen Moore:
2019: 1st - 431.5
2020: 14th - 371.8
2021: 1st - 407.0
2022: 11th - 354.9
2023: 18th - 329.4
2024: 8th - 367.2
(Avg rank: 9th) (Avg yards: 376.97)

Kliff Kingsbury:
2019 (HC): 21st - 341.7
2020 (HC): 6th - 384.6
2021 (HC): 8th - 373.6
2022 (HC): 22nd - 323.6
2024 (OC): 7th - 369.6
(Avg rank: 13th) (Avg yards: 358.62)

Joe Brady:
2020: 21st - 349.5
2021: 30th - 298.9
2023: 4th - 380.7 (7 games)
2024: 10th - 359.1
(Avg rank: 16th) (Avg yards: 347.05)


Passing offense per season
Ben Johnson:
2022: 8th - 251.8
2023: 2nd - 258.9
2024: 2nd - 263.2
(Avg rank: 3rd) (Avg yards: 257.97)

Kellen Moore:
2019: 2nd - 296.9
2020: 8th - 260.1
2021: 2nd - 282.4
2022: 14th - 219.8
2023: 13th - 232.8
2024: 29th - 187.9
(Avg rank: 11th) (Avg yards: 246.65)

Kliff Kingsbury:
2019 (HC): 24th - 217.3
2020 (HC): 17th - 244.8
2021 (HC): 10th - 251.5
2022 (HC): 18th - 213.3
2024 (OC): 17th - 215.6
(Avg rank: 17th) (Avg yards: (228.5)

Joe Brady:
2020: 18th - 243.0
2021: 29th - 190.5
2023: 14th - 231.1 (7 games)
2024: 9th - 227.9
(Avg rank: 18th) (Avg yards: 223.1)


Rushing offense per season
Ben Johnson:
2022: 11th - 128.2
2023: 5th - 135.9
2024: 6th - 146.4
(Avg rank - 7th) (Avg yards - 136.83)

Kliff Kingsbury:
2019 (HC): 10th - 124.4
2020 (HC): 7th - 139.8
2021 (HC): 10th - 122.1
2022 (HC): 22nd - 110.2
2024 (OC): 3rd - 154.1
(Avg rank - 10th) (Avg yards - 130.12)

Kellen Moore:
2019: 5th - 134.6
2020: 17th - 111.8
2021: 9th - 124.6
2022: 9th - 135.2
2023: 25th - 96.6
2024: 2nd - 179.3
(Avg rank - 11th) (Avg yards - 130.35)

Joe Brady:
2020: 21st - 106.5
2021: 20th - 108.4
2023: 2nd - 149.6 (7 games)
2024: 9th - 131.2
(Avg rank - 13th) (Avg yards - 123.9)


Scoring per season
Ben Johnson:
2022: 5th - 26.6
2023: 5th - 27.1
2024: 1st - 33.2
(Avg rank - 4th) (Avg points - 29)

Kellen Moore:
2019: 6th - 27.1
2020: 17th - 24.7
2021: 1st - 31.2
2022: 4th - 27.5
2023: 21st - 20.4
2024: 7th - 27.2
(Avg rank - 9th) (Avg points - 26.35)

Kliff Kingsbury:
2019 (HC): 16th - 22.6
2020 (HC): 13th - 25.6
2021 (HC): 11th - 26.4
2022 (HC): 21st - 20.0
2024 (OC): 5th - 28.5
(Avg rank - 13th) (Avg points: 24.62)

Joe Brady:
2020: 24th - 21.9
2021: 29th - 17.9
2023: 6th - 27 (7 games)
2024: 2nd - 30.9
(Avg rank - 15th) (Avg points - 24.4)


Redzone TD scoring per season
Ben Johnson:
2022: 4th - 66.18%
2023: 2nd - 66.67%
2024: 3rd - 69.44%
(Avg rank - 3rd) (Avg pct - 67.43%)

Kliff Kingsbury:
2019 (HC): 29th - 45.28%
2020 (HC): 10th - 65.52%
2021 (HC): 15th - 60.61%
2022 (HC): 11th - 56.82%
2024 (OC): 6th - 63.38%
(Avg rank - 14th; 11th excl. 2019) (Avg pct - 58.32%; 61.58% excl. 2019)

Kellen Moore:
2019: 16th - 57.41%
2020: T-29th - 50%
2021: 6th - 63.64%
2022: 1st - 71.43%
2023: 14th - 57.45%
2024: 13th - 57.35%
(Avg rank - 13th) (Avg pct - 59.54%)

Joe Brady:
2020: 28th - 50.88%
2021: 25th - 53.19%
2023: 16th - 56% (7 games)
2024: 2nd - 74.4%
(Avg rank - 18th) (Avg pct - 58.61%)


Passing TDs per season
Ben Johnson:
2022: T-6th - 1.7
2023: T-6th - 1.7
2024: 4th - 2.3
(Avg rank - 5th) (Avg pTDs - 1.9)

Kellen Moore:
2019: T-5th - 1.9
2020: T-18th - 1.6
2021: 3rd - 2.3
2022: T-6th - 1.7
2023: T-16th - 1.4
2024: T-12th - 1.4
(Avg rank - 10th) (Avg pTDs - 1.7)

Joe Brady:
2020: T-28th - 1.0
2021: 31st - 0.8
2023: T-6th - 1.7
2024: T-7th - 1.8
(Avg rank - 18th) (Avg pTDs - 1.3)


Rushing TDs per season
Ben Johnson:
2022: 2nd - 1.4
2023: 1st - 1.7
2024: T-2nd - 1.7
(Avg rank - 2nd) (Avg rTDs - 1.6)

Kellen Moore:
2019: T-9th - 1.1
2020: T-18th - 0.9
2021: T-14th - 0.9
2022: 3rd - 1.3
2023: T-21st - 0.6
2024: T-2nd - 1.7
(Avg rank - 11th) (Avg rTDs - 1.08)

Joe Brady:
2020: T-10th - 1.2
2021: 13th - 1.0
2023: 5th - 1.3
2024: 1st - 1.7
(Avg rank - 7th) (Avg rTDs - 1.3)


Top offensive playmakers while OC (and HC)
Ben Johnson: QB Jared Goff, RB Jahmyr Gibbs, RB David Montgomery, RB Jamaal Williams, RB D’Andre Swift, WR Amon-Ra St. Brown, WR Jameson Williams, TE Sam LaPorta

Kellen Moore: QB Dak Prescott, QB Jalen Hurts, QB Justin Herbert, RB Saquon Barkley, RB Ezekiel Elliott, RB Tony Pollard, RB Austin Ekeler, WR Ceedee Lamb, WR A.J. Brown, WR DeVonta Smith, WR Keenan Allen, WR Mike Williams, TE Dallas Goedert

Kliff Kingsbury: QB Jayden Daniels, QB Kyler Murray, RB James Conner, RB Brian Robinson Jr., RB Austin Ekeler, RB Kenyan Drake, WR Terry McLaurin, WR Larry Fitzgerald, WR DeAndre Hopkins, WR Christian Kirk, WR A.J. Green, WR Marquise Brown, TE Zach Ertz, TE Trey McBride

Joe Brady: QB Josh Allen, QB Teddy Bridgewater, QB Sam Darnold, RB James Cook, RB Christian McCaffrey (10 games in Brady’s 2 Panthers years), RB Chuba Hubbard, WR Stefon Diggs, WR D.J. Moore, WR Robbie Chosen, WR Khalil Shakir, WR Keon Coleman, WR Amari Cooper, TE Dalton Kincaid

 

[No2DC]

It's difficult to evaluate them based on the abundance of talent they work with, especially Moore. I will say the Bills looked better this year, even though they traded Diggs. Also, I don't get "leader of men from Moore or Brady (Johnson's not coming here).

 

[tim martin]

It's difficult to evaluate them based on the abundance of talent they work with, especially Moore. I will say the Bills looked better this year, even though they traded Diggs. Also, I don't get "leader of men from Moore or Brady (Johnson's not coming here).

i don’t see johnson as a leader either. hard to tell when they just read from call sheet. just looks nerdy to me lol.

 

[Stalwart385]

Yeah I don't know if they are HC material or not but Johnson has impressed me the most. Just his situation, his support and what he's accomplished.

 

[guillermo]

Great analysis, thank you SonOfNola.

An interesting element will see the influence these coordinators had building their offenses.

My guess is is Brady has none (most of it was already there), Moore worked under Jerry Jones who loves all accolades coming to him.

My guess Johnson may be the most inflential of the three.

Here is how I will rank them and reason:

1) Ben Johnson, not only I like his creativity, I love that he has the courage to say no to opportunities coming to him, and to value how good he has it in Detroit. It will be really hard for him, and I expect he will have a big part of the decision making.

2) Joe Brady. I know, he is fortunate to work with Joe Burrow and now with Josh Allen. But what impress me is his commitment to the run game. If Brady is able to build a solid offensive line, he will have success wherever he goes.

3) Kellen Moore, at Dallas he had a dominant offensive line, Dak as quarterback. CD Lamb and Amari Cooper at receivers. Zeke as RB. Not bad. The problem I rank him last is that in Dallas there were several games that committed to the pass game, leaving Zeke (who at the time was in his prime) basically forgotten. Now in Philly, it is easy to concentrate on the run since Barkley is the bedrock of that offense.

I think it is important to know how much of a leader these candidates are. We frankly don't know of these 3.

I don't think we can get Johnson, since I presume he wants to have a bigger say in personnel matters. So my bet would be on Brady.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

People on twitter are saying saints officials reached out to Ben Johnson’s people and the response was “no way”. I’m trying to find if that’s reported or what, so far sounds like BS rumors. But I’d be surprised completely if Ben Johnson even took the time to interview with us.

 

[SweetT]

People on twitter are saying saints officials reached out to Ben Johnson’s people and the response was “no way”. I’m trying to find if that’s reported or what, so far sounds like BS rumors. But I’d be surprised completely if Ben Johnson even took the time to interview with us.

Actually the response went sorta like the Les Grossman line in Tropic Thunder. You know, the part about the side of Hobo’s ____ cheese. IYKYK

 

[football]

People on twitter are saying saints officials reached out to Ben Johnson’s people and the response was “no way”. I’m trying to find if that’s reported or what, so far sounds like BS rumors. But I’d be surprised completely if Ben Johnson even took the time to interview with us.

That's cool. If that true then this team and city don't want him.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I'm a fan of Ben Johnson because of A his personality, and B how he's gotten production out of the running game. The way Detroit gets #'s in the running game is how Jamaal Williams was able to be productive while there, and how his replacement was productive in Detroit in ways that he wasn't w/ the Bears. He's also famliar w/ running a 2 back system

I like Moore because of the creativity he's shown in the run game, and how he's developed QB's. Someone pointed out he can get a little pass happy, and that's a negative but I enjoy his dedicaiton to the Read Option/Run Fakes out of Shotgun. Easy field position yardage on 3rd, but also catches teams by surprise, and it can hold LB's on the LOS so you can sneak passes behind them on 3rd down.

 

[TenTwo]

Ben Johnson isn’t coming here so y’all should just let go of that fantasy now

 

[Snakehead]

Nice breakdown.

Lions are 15-2 this season.

 

[SAINT BIGAL]

Ben Johnson isn’t coming here so y’all should just let go of that fantasy now

It’s sad but right now this team really doesn’t have much to offer a new HC.

 

[Snakehead]

It’s sad but right now this team really doesn’t have much to offer a new HC.

If a HC can't see the opportunity the Saints job offers him, then he's not the right coach. The city, state, area and fans are hard working resilient fans who run toward people in need. That's what I remember growing up down there, in during/after Katrina, every other hurricane that has affected the area and most recently with the terrorist attack in the French Quarter. The team doesn't need a HC who is scared to take that on, the team needs a HC who runs toward the opportunity to help.

If Ben Johnson is turning down the hard jobs, then he can stay where he's at, he's obviously not built the same.

 

[SAINT BIGAL]

If a HC can't see the opportunity the Saints job offers him, then he's not the right coach. The city, state, area and fans are hard working resilient fans who run toward people in need. That's what I remember growing up down there, in during/after Katrina, every other hurricane that has affected the area and most recently with the terrorist attack in the French Quarter. The team doesn't need a HC who is scared to take that on, the team needs a HC who runs toward the opportunity to help.

If Ben Johnson is turning down the hard jobs, then he can stay where he's at, he's obviously not built the same.

I wasn’t commenting on the city. I was talking specifically about the Saints organization with a lack of talent and lots of needs.

If Ben Johnson turned/turns down an opportunity with the Saints, that’s ok. No hard feelings here. I’m sure that Detroit job he took wasn’t considered easy at the time.

 

[football]

I wasn’t commenting on the city. I was talking specifically about the Saints organization with a lack of talent and lots of needs.

If Ben Johnson turned/turns down an opportunity with the Saints, that’s ok. No hard feelings here. I’m sure that Detroit job he took wasn’t considered easy at the time.

I don't have any problem him not wanting to come here. Everyone has a preference. But I feel he might be over hyped and might not be the best hire of all the new coaches.