Saints candidates Kellen Moore, Joe Brady [and Kliff Kingsbury] compared to Ben Johnson in offensive rankings

[Saints 318]

It just shows u need a good qb

 

[jahsoul357]

And the 2022 Bills were #1 in red zone efficiency, and then #4 in 2023. In the first 10 games of 2023 with Ken Dorsey, they were #2 in red zone efficiency, but were #16 the last seven games of the season.

I think the red zone efficiency is correlating with something else, and it isn't Brady.

Actually, as @DSnfla pointed out, Teddy B called out the fact that the red zone was something they didn't emphasize. Also, if you believe that red zone efficiency is tied to Josh Allen, they would have maintained their efficiency last season. Brady basically had to call Dorsey's offense. Josh Allen got worst with Brady last season but this season, he implemented his offense and here we are.

 

[sfidc3]

Joe Brady, the man, is not what you guys think he is. It’s really difficult to envision him as a NFL HC, leading a full locker room of players and coaches, and that’s not just me saying that.

This is more a due diligence, courtesy interview IMO.

Would love to be proven wrong on this and see the kid show he’s matured a lot and knock it out of the park.

For his sake, he better hope other HC needy teams aren’t calling SP for his opinion.

I could see him being a HC at the FBS college level currently, maybe.

Do you have a source for these claims or are they just feewings?

 

[St. Geezy]

Do you have a source for these claims or are they just feewings?

Unfortunately I don't have a physical source to share as in a link or anything, I just know and been around people, both as acquaintances and professionally. I'm sure my claims could be cross-checked with googling and finding similar info though.

I've lived many lives.

 

[sfidc3]

Unfortunately I don't have a physical source to share as in a link or anything, I just know and been around people, both as acquaintances and professionally. I'm sure my claims could be cross-checked with googling and finding similar info though.

I've lived many lives.

Fair enough, Brady may or may not turn out to be a good HC.....but the information you have provided without any source does not really mean much to me....

 

[St. Geezy]

Fair enough, Brady may or may not turn out to be a good HC.....but the information you have provided without any source does not really mean much to me....

Fair enough.

Anytime I post info like that, I speak off the cuff. Not looking for cool points. Take it or leave it, doesn't bother me.

The people here that know me, both from the board and personally, know I wouldn't post that just to post it and know my credentials.

 

[bayoumilitia]

You say that as if Joe Brady is a head coach making the decisions for the full team. Let's not forget you're comparing what is likely a hall of fame coach, controlling a full team who has been coaching in the NFL for 18 years, has gone through his growing pains as a head coach (remember 07 and 08), to an offensive coordinator with not much more then an MVP QB to work with and rely on carrying his team offense that is all he has fair control over (and still not full control since he has a head coach to answer to).

No you’re 100% correct. I realize that. My original comparison was to someone’s post about how well Buffalo and Josh Allen were doing this well with Joe Brady as OC this offseason and comparisons to Ben Johnson and Kellen Moore from a stat ranking standpoint. I was just giving a different perspective on Buffalo, Josh Allen and Joe Brady in general this season based on their schedule and other factors. Yes, there’s no comparison as to what SP is able to do and the total control he has as evident by what he has done with Bo Nix. To be clear, I think Josh Allen is a better QB than Bo Nix, but Bo Nix is clearly been coached up and Josh Allen hasn’t had to throw for 4,000 yards or 40 TDs with their +24 turnover differential.

To that effect I was just pointing out that I’m not so sure that Joe Brady, Josh or Buffalo for that matter has faced a lot of adversity this year. When they have they didn’t particularly shine when it was against good or really good teams on the road with the exception being an extremely banged up Detroit unit. Which I admit was probably Joe Brady’s best called game as OC. His worst, a 35-10 drubbing at Baltimore. I say all that just to reiterate my opinion, once again “my opinion” that Joe Brady is a decent OC, good passing coordinator but is just not ready to be a HC at the NFL level yet.

As I stated though, similar things have been said about young OCs and DCs that have had success and some longevity as NFL HCs: Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Mike Tomlin. So who knows.

 

[Jd101]

Yeah I don't know if they are HC material or not but Johnson has impressed me the most. Just his situation, his support and what he's accomplished.

Remember to look at the QB they had during their best seasons, and what they would be coming into with the saints. We need someone who can develop QBs, and give him a good DC and OC

 

[DSnfla]

I totally agree. I posted earlier about Buffalo and Joe Brady’s success this year not being what most people think. For what it’s worth Bo Nix has more passing yards and a better completion percentage than Josh Allen and I believe only about 100 yards less rushing. So maybe the Saints should be looking at Joe Lombardi as a serious HC candidate to lol. Who has Buffalo or Joe Brady really called a good game against this year? Maybe at Detroit when Aaron Glenn was still trying to plug in 3rd string defensive guys. Other than that game they beat bad to mediocre teams only. They lost to current playoff teams. If anything Josh Allen’s numbers have regressed at least from a yardage and TD standpoint under Joe Brady. He’s throwing less interceptions but his attempts are down and that correlates to their freaking NFL best +24 in turnover margin. Once again, I’m not saying Joe Brady is a horrible OC, he’s okay and a fair passing game coordinator but in my opinion just not ready to be an NFL coach. But hey, I concede that I did not think Sean McVay would do well either and he’s survived and actually has made adjustments to his plays. Heck, that was one of Buffalo’s 4 losses. A shootout at the Rams, McVay just made better calls down the stretch.

WOW we actually agree on something LOL

 

[DSnfla]

Well, apparently, he learned his lesson because the 2024 Bills are #2 in red zone efficiency.


It was his first OC role in the NFL and when you look at it in its totality, it is nowhere close to what you are making it. His issue in Carolina was red zone offense and that was 4 years ago. Yep, he is a more efficient runner than he is passer when he doesn't have Diggs to throw it to. Crazy how we talk about elite QB play but don't none of these QBs make the receiver talent better around them...lol


He wasn't even the best in the league in off-script playmaking. And that's not why they were winning. They were winning because of their run game and defense.


See my second point...lol

500 of those rushing yds are from Allen's legs , especially in the RZ
While they don't have Diggs they do have a quite good corps of WRs and a good TE

Like I said in Car, his O was #24. It's too early for Brady to be a HC only 3 yrs as an OC and half of them not so good.
He didn't call plays @ LSU

Again , what about Brady makes you think he will be a leader of men ?
He hasn't changed much about the Bills offense in the way of scheme he just has trusted Allen's legs more. I'm not willing to have a guy do much OJT

 

[bayoumilitia]

WOW we actually agree on something LOL

lol, I know right. It’s life brother. No two people agree on everything but there’s often common ground on many things

 

[bayoumilitia]

WOW we actually agree on something LOL

Yes and I’ll actually go a step further and concede that wether I (and apparently half the board) like it or not there doesn’t appear to be any major shakeups happening in the Saints FO or that would have likely already have happened in my opinion.

Which to me makes it that much more important that the next HC for our organization be as close to Sean Payton in a couple of ways. First, he needs to be able to have a vision, share, translate and motivate today’s players to buy in to that vision of what winning looks like. Basically a rebranding if you will of what “Saints” ball or the “Saints” culture/way looks like amongst every coach/player and staff.

Second, our next HC will need a bit of an edge, cockiness if you will that sets the tone that we’re done taking crap and we are going to once again start dictating how games are played in our terms, not the other way around.

Yes, I acknowledge that if you talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. SP then was able to assemble his staff and the right personnel that could and did prescribe to his mindset, his culture, his brand of ball. It’s a delicate balance for sure but when you get it right, it’s magical and we were lucky enough to witness it firsthand. Can it be duplicated?

I guess that’s the trouble I’m having when I think about Joe Brady, Ben Johnson, or Kelllen Moore. I just don’t know their personalities well enough I guess to make a fair assessment of if they can actually pull off what I think needs to happen to rebuild our franchise to get back to the SB. Do they have that fire like Dan Campbell, the intensity of a Sean Payton, the persona of an Andy Reid? Maybe, maybe we just haven’t seen it yet.

And yes, the same question could be legitimately asked of just about everyone that is currently scheduled for an interview. I understand that. It’s just for me, personally I knew Sean Payton when he coached in Philly, New York and Dallas and he just always seemed like he had a way about him. He progressed at each stop as he should but by the time he got to Dallas you could tell SP was not only ready to be a HC in the NFL it was if he was ready to come in and make other teams and owners regret not hiring him sooner.

He wasn’t just grateful for the opportunity. Sure he said that in his opening presser like every coach does but it’s what he didn’t say. It was the behind the scenes stuff that we would learn about after the fact to motivate the team. Yes “X’s and O’s” matter but it’s also attention to detail and that’s where I think initially SP changed many things and refocused the entire organization.

Personally I’d rather a HC that can relate to and maximize the talent of todays players while establishing a culture of pride, attention to detail, and playing all three phases with the intent on setting the tone each week. I’d keep Kubiack, roll with Carr as QB1, get another WR to go with Shaheed, Olave probably via FA. Yes we could certainly use another pass catching TE and a true slot WR but let’s assume we have Taysom for at least 1 more year.

Draft the best Safety available at #9. Find at least 2-3 O lineman in the draft that have played in a system as close to Kubiack’s system as possible. We definitely need a sure fire backup to McCoy. I think our RB room is okay actually, yes we need more edge guys and LBs. we will have to get creative with the draft, and what $$ we have in FA and lucky with undrafted FAs. I think if Adebo fully recovers we’re also decent at that position.

I don’t think our situation is as dire as it might seem. Yes, we need a leader. That’s where I go back to Brady, Johnson and Moore. Are they natural leaders? You tell me, because I haven’t seen that they are leaders, or maybe they just haven’t had the opportunity yet to show that they are.

 

[jahsoul357]

No you’re 100% correct. I realize that. My original comparison was to someone’s post about how well Buffalo and Josh Allen were doing this well with Joe Brady as OC this offseason and comparisons to Ben Johnson and Kellen Moore from a stat ranking standpoint. I was just giving a different perspective on Buffalo, Josh Allen and Joe Brady in general this season based on their schedule and other factors. Yes, there’s no comparison as to what SP is able to do and the total control he has as evident by what he has done with Bo Nix. To be clear, I think Josh Allen is a better QB than Bo Nix, but Bo Nix is clearly been coached up and Josh Allen hasn’t had to throw for 4,000 yards or 40 TDs with their +24 turnover differential.

To that effect I was just pointing out that I’m not so sure that Joe Brady, Josh or Buffalo for that matter has faced a lot of adversity this year. When they have they didn’t particularly shine when it was against good or really good teams on the road with the exception being an extremely banged up Detroit unit. Which I admit was probably Joe Brady’s best called game as OC. His worst, a 35-10 drubbing at Baltimore. I say all that just to reiterate my opinion, once again “my opinion” that Joe Brady is a decent OC, good passing coordinator but is just not ready to be a HC at the NFL level yet.

As I stated though, similar things have been said about young OCs and DCs that have had success and some longevity as NFL HCs: Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Mike Tomlin. So who knows.

500 of those rushing yds are from Allen's legs , especially in the RZ
While they don't have Diggs they do have a quite good corps of WRs and a good TE

Like I said in Car, his O was #24. It's too early for Brady to be a HC only 3 yrs as an OC and half of them not so good.
He didn't call plays @ LSU

Again , what about Brady makes you think he will be a leader of men ?
He hasn't changed much about the Bills offense in the way of scheme he just has trusted Allen's legs more. I'm not willing to have a guy do much OJT

We might need to have an honest conversation about what Josh Allen was before Stefon Diggs and them modifying the offense around him at WR1. Allen was always a better athlete than passer but he has a rocket arm.

But @bayoumilitia , I agree 100% with your last sentence. We don't know what these people will be. Mike Tomlin is probably one of the best leaders of men we've probably seen in this league but this would not have been seen until he got the job in Pittsburgh. We don't know what Joe Brady is because we aren't in the meeting rooms, we aren't on the practice fields, nor are we privy to communication. We are spectators and what we see on TV is what we get.

 

[bayoumilitia]

We might need to have an honest conversation about what Josh Allen was before Stefon Diggs and them modifying the offense around him at WR1. Allen was always a better athlete than passer but he has a rocket arm.

But @bayoumilitia , I agree 100% with your last sentence. We don't know what these people will be. Mike Tomlin is probably one of the best leaders of men we've probably seen in this league but this would not have been seen until he got the job in Pittsburgh. We don't know what Joe Brady is because we aren't in the meeting rooms, we aren't on the practice fields, nor are we privy to communication. We are spectators and what we see on TV is what we get.

Yep, it’s the great unknown to us fans. We think we have a gauge on all these coaches mentalities or personalities but in all honesty it’s just speculation or as you pointed out at best a small observation based on what limited information we have.

I think we all would love to be in on the interview process lol. I’ve conducted so many interviews in my life and I’ve been through quite a few as well. I’ve definitely learned that when it comes to the success or failure of the hiring process, it is very much about the type of questions you ask (open ended usually) and the responses you get from the candidates.

I’ve always wondered with NFL coaching positions. Do you think that GMs ask each candidate the same exact questions? Then grade their answers and just score them? Or do you think that the GMs give each candidate different questions? And just goes by gut feeling?