Saints met with top QB prospect Cam Ward ; Cam Ward: “It would be a dream of mine to play for the Saints if I get a chance someday” (25 Viewers)

[Rexman100]

I’ve got such mixed feelings about Shedeur. On the one hand, he’s been talked about as a top 5 pick all year, this will hopefully be the highest we’ll be drafting anytime soon, and QB is a definite need, not to mention the star power he'd bring with him (part of me thinks that some of the talk of him sliding is just to get him in range for Dallas). If he were to be available at 9 do you just take him and not overthink it?

On the other hand, I've seen him play a lot of games the last couple of years, and he is a good college quarterback, but I can't say I thought he was "elite." He had a lot of solid games, but not too many when he really wowed me by taking over.

He's got good, but not special, athleticism (like Brees?) and throws a nice, accurate ball (like Brees?) and can throw with touch (also like Brees?). But he also took a lot of sacks (not like Brees), and has a habit of retreating from the rush instead of stepping up (also not like Brees) that will need to get corrected. I also wonder how close he’s already been coached up to his ceiling.

Good points i pretty much agree with all of them. However, I think what’s exciting about him is his toughness and escapability and overall mobility. I’ve said that he lacks pocket presence, but it’s after the pocket breaks down, that he can still make things happen. And he’s surprisingly accurate on the run. He does retreat backwards, but is it out of fear, or to buy time to drop a 50 yard dime. The Deion element will make him slide some spots. Unless you’re Dallas where they embrace Deoin. Like I said, he’s intriguing enough to do a deep dive. He seems like the typical boom or bust QB. But I don’t think he’ll bust, because Deion will give him all the support he’ll ever need. If he doesn’t bust and he becomes great, we’ll certainly regret it.

 

[Rexman100]

Unless we draft fantastically, I expect more of the same. Depending on injuries anywhere from 4-9 wins. Given our track record of rookies not producing much, I don't want to get my expectations up. A top 10 pick would not be out of the question next year.

You have to also consider that KM could finally be the coach that unlocks Dc4.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

I’ve got such mixed feelings about Shedeur. On the one hand, he’s been talked about as a top 5 pick all year, this will hopefully be the highest we’ll be drafting anytime soon, and QB is a definite need, not to mention the star power he'd bring with him (part of me thinks that some of the talk of him sliding is just to get him in range for Dallas). If he were to be available at 9 do you just take him and not overthink it?

On the other hand, I've seen him play a lot of games the last couple of years, and he is a good college quarterback, but I can't say I thought he was "elite." He had a lot of solid games, but not too many when he really wowed me by taking over.

He's got good, but not special, athleticism (like Brees?) and throws a nice, accurate ball (like Brees?) and can throw with touch (also like Brees?). But he also took a lot of sacks (not like Brees), and has a habit of retreating from the rush instead of stepping up (also not like Brees) that will need to get corrected. I also wonder how close he’s already been coached up to his ceiling.

All of this, and consider that his Dad was the head coach and his Dad was specifically tailoring the gameplan to his strong suits. It becomes a big question mark. Not only was he not "taking over games", he wasn't taking over games against bottom of the barrel defenses in college. While throwing to a Heisman Trophy winner. There were also times when it felt like everyone knew a pass play was coming, but a run play was called. It left me wondering if PrimeTime didn't want to put his kid in position of low chance of success at the expense of giving the team a chance to win. There was just some really odd things here and there that was confusing.

Then to add more to that, when he panicked, he often just threw the ball up at Hunter who sometimes could make the play which made Sanders look good. That won't work in the NFL. Winston got benched in Cleveland for doing that.

The guy just screams backup to me.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

You have to also consider that KM could finally be the coach that unlocks Dc4.

As of now it doesn't feel like that's a real possibility. The QB's under Moore often find success because Moore's run game always ended up forcing 8 in the box because the run game was so incredibly good. We have question marks on Oline (mostly guard because our LG was awful this past year but Ruiz also struggles a lot in the run game). Despite what many think, we also have question marks at RB. Miller is always injured. Edwards-Helaire has struggled for years to be dependable for anything outside of a handful of touches a game. And sadly, Kamara is 30 (or will be by starting of training camp) which is where almost all RB's fall off a cliff in performance. Very few were able to hold it off till 31.

As of now, I just don't think we're going to field an offense that can force 8 in the box.

There's actually a perfect example of Moore with an offense similar to our situation. With the Cowboys and Eagles, Moore had great talent at RB that was also young. But with the Chargers he had an awesome RB who's age caught up to him (Ekeler). The Chargers ended up with the 18th offense in the league (bottom half). I watched a lot of those games and it was ugly. It was the one season where Moores offense couldn't force 8 in the box and the offense struggled because of it. Herbert is a better QB also then Carr by a bit, and better than Rattler by miles.

I don't think drafting RB is a luxury this draft. I think its necessity. As is IOL. We're not going to see a passing game behind the LOS which basically serve as "extended runs" like Payton and Brees used to do all the time to bring defenses closer to the LOS. Moore runs a more true to the sense "smash mouth" football.

 

[Rexman100]

As of now it doesn't feel like that's a real possibility. The QB's under Moore often find success because Moore's run game always ended up forcing 8 in the box because the run game was so incredibly good. We have question marks on Oline (mostly guard because our LG was awful this past year but Ruiz also struggles a lot in the run game). Despite what many think, we also have question marks at RB. Miller is always injured. Edwards-Helaire has struggled for years to be dependable for anything outside of a handful of touches a game. And sadly, Kamara is 30 (or will be by starting of training camp) which is where almost all RB's fall off a cliff in performance. Very few were able to hold it off till 31.

As of now, I just don't think we're going to field an offense that can force 8 in the box.

There's actually a perfect example of Moore with an offense similar to our situation. With the Cowboys and Eagles, Moore had great talent at RB that was also young. But with the Chargers he had an awesome RB who's age caught up to him (Ekeler). The Chargers ended up with the 18th offense in the league (bottom half). I watched a lot of those games and it was ugly. It was the one season where Moores offense couldn't force 8 in the box and the offense struggled because of it. Herbert is a better QB also then Carr by a bit, and better than Rattler by miles.

I don't think drafting RB is a luxury this draft. I think its necessity. As is IOL.

I see it like this. At the present we’re not a good running team. Unless we continue KKs offense, which I don’t think we will. So if we’re not a good running team, then what are we best at? And that is DC4 ability to throw the ball. I’d expect a balanced offense or a pass heavy lean.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

I see it like this. At the present we’re not a good running team. Unless we continue KKs offense, which I don’t think we will. So if we’re not a good running team, then what are we best at? And that is DC4 ability to throw the ball. I’d expect a balanced offense or a pass heavy lean.

I see. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I just don't have any faith in Carr putting the offense on his arm and carrying the offense week in and week out. Even his best years with Gruden it was his teammates like Josh Jacobs, Darren Waller and Hunter Renfrow elevating him more then him elevating his teammates. And the only player on our offense that has been capable of doing that was been Kamara, who I don't think can do it anymore, and if so it'll be this last season at best.

I'll be super surprised if we don't try and target Jeanty even if it means we have to trade up. But even if we try really hard, it doesn't mean it will happen. I would be even more shocked if we come out of this draft without a RB in the first 2 rounds.

 

[Tim+]

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Can you Imagine what the Saints would have to give up to jump up to get him? IDK if it would be worth the risk. But at some point, we will have to bite the bullet and start with a fresh QB and Stop kicking the can down the road with these "Average" Veteran QBs.

 

[Saint Spud]

I’ve talked to some people connected with University of Miami. Ward is the real deal. Next level competitor and leader.

I’d love for us to find a way to trade up for him. But it seems close to impossible.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I see it like this. At the present we’re not a good running team. Unless we continue KKs offense, which I don’t think we will. So if we’re not a good running team, then what are we best at? And that is DC4 ability to throw the ball. I’d expect a balanced offense or a pass heavy lean.

If you think being a pass-heavy team w/ Carr is the answer go look at his 1st season under Carmichael. He got hit...a lot. That's why they adjusted and searched for a run oriented PA offense to build around him and landed on Kubiak system. He's a QB that must be supported by a running game, always has been.

 

[Chuck McGill Esq.]

Would love Swimmer's input on this if we really want to turn up the heat on this thread.

 

[St. Widge]

Good points i pretty much agree with all of them. However, I think what’s exciting about him is his toughness and escapability and overall mobility. I’ve said that he lacks pocket presence, but it’s after the pocket breaks down, that he can still make things happen. And he’s surprisingly accurate on the run. He does retreat backwards, but is it out of fear, or to buy time to drop a 50 yard dime. The Deion element will make him slide some spots. Unless you’re Dallas where they embrace Deoin. Like I said, he’s intriguing enough to do a deep dive. He seems like the typical boom or bust QB. But I don’t think he’ll bust, because Deion will give him all the support he’ll ever need. If he doesn’t bust and he becomes great, we’ll certainly regret it.

I don't really think he's boom or bust. I think he actually has a high floor as a mid-level game manager QB much like Purdy. The one thing that could hurt that is if he can't learn to step up in the pocket and get the ball out before sacks, but both those things seem very coachable.

He hasn't shown to be a guy that can take over games which is why it's hard to see him as a high first round pick because his ceiling doesn't appear to be very high, but I also think he doesn't have a lot of risk. He really seems like a 2nd round guy, but QBs often get taken a round earlier than they should.

BTW, Kiper released a mock draft today in which he has us taking Dart at #9 (Ward and Sanders go top 3). I would not be happy with Dart at #9.

 

[Rexman100]

If you think being a pass-heavy team w/ Carr is the answer go look at his 1st season under Carmichael. He got hit...a lot. That's why they adjusted and searched for a run oriented PA offense to build around him and landed on Kubiak system. He's a QB that must be supported by a running game, always has been.

makes sense, but we signed new offensive coaches and let our run heavy coaches got to Seattle. The oline and running game coaches that we did sign, are from the Drew Brees era, therefore wouldnt you expect a similar offense? How will we generate a consistent running game without an attacking oline that Benton employed? For the record, im not saying a pass happy lean offense is the answer, im saying that they think it will be the answer. But i do agree that DC4 got hit alot and forced the pivot. So our offense will have to be something in the middle. I really wish we kept KK and co. under KM. Another couple seasons of that offense would be solid.

 

[St. Widge]

If you think being a pass-heavy team w/ Carr is the answer go look at his 1st season under Carmichael. He got hit...a lot. That's why they adjusted and searched for a run oriented PA offense to build around him and landed on Kubiak system. He's a QB that must be supported by a running game, always has been.

I do wonder what Moore's long term plan is. You are certainly right that Carr needs a strong running game to set up the play action passes, but I do wonder what Moore wants to do long term? My suspicion is that he wants an offense closer to what Sean Payton does than the Shanhan/Kubiak system because that is what he ran in the past, but it's hard to know how much his time in Philly changed what he wants to do long term.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I do wonder what Moore's long term plan is. You are certainly right that Carr needs a strong running game to set up the play action passes, but I do wonder what Moore wants to do long term? My suspicion is that he wants an offense closer to what Sean Payton does than the Shanhan/Kubiak system because that is what he ran in the past, but it's hard to know how much his time in Philly changed what he wants to do long term.

He's versed in Air Coryell from his time w/ Jason Garrett but also versed in West Coast Principles from his time w/ McCarthy. The Air Coryell is his foundation but he's willing to build on top of what works. Moore's proven strategic, bringing in the old RB's coach appeases Kamara. Keeping elements of the zone run will endear him to McCoy etc. If the plan is for Carr to be your QB, there's enough evidence out there to suggest leaning on PA, quick game, and running the ball to set up manageable 3rd downs, while taking well planned shots down the field.

 

[Rexman100]

I see. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I just don't have any faith in Carr putting the offense on his arm and carrying the offense week in and week out. Even his best years with Gruden it was his teammates like Josh Jacobs, Darren Waller and Hunter Renfrow elevating him more then him elevating his teammates. And the only player on our offense that has been capable of doing that was been Kamara, who I don't think can do it anymore, and if so it'll be this last season at best.

I'll be super surprised if we don't try and target Jeanty even if it means we have to trade up. But even if we try really hard, it doesn't mean it will happen. I would be even more shocked if we come out of this draft without a RB in the first 2 rounds.

yea im not predicting what i want us to do, im predicting what i think they will do judging by the moves. Ellias makes a solid point that a pass happy O will find Carr in the concussion tent early and often. So, if we're not going to employ the run first KK (Shananhan) offense, then what will we do, if we're not a pass happy? Just because KM ran the run heavy in Philly doesnt mean its his goto offense. It strictly means that Philly had a dominant RB and Oline and a solid RPO QB. But, personelle-wise, we're completely different.