Semper's Stupendous to Infinity and Beyond Everything Marvel Movie/TV Thread (1 Viewer)

[Saint by the Bay]

I enjoyed it, but I saw something that resonated with me... "This is a FF movie that replaces the FF with Ant-Man and his family."

It really feels that way. It wasn't an Ant-Man story. They felt wedged in. This would have been a great FF story and frankly should have been the intro of the FF to the MCU. It would have alleviated the need to force Ant-Man-style comedy in there.

So it's not that it was bad as much as it didn't really fit the characters that were in it.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

I'm goofy like that.

Admitting the problem is the first step to recovery.

 

[Sun Wukong]

So we are now at what may be a pivotal moment in the history of Marvel Studios.

For those that don't keep up with the business end of things, Quantamania just had the biggest second weekend box office drop in MCU history. And the second worst drop for a super hero movie after Batman vs Superman (it could still beat it depending on final numbers Monday.) It's also the fourth worst drop for any movie that opened to a 100+ million weekend EVER. We're talking 70%. That's a massive week to week drop for a major movie let alone something with the brand strength of Marvel.

Not only did it tank domestically this weekend, the world wide numbers are abysmal too. This thing is looking at a real shot of not even hitting 500 million worldwide. Which for a Marvel movie is unheard of.

We can quibble about definitions and try to understand the arcane nonsense of Hollywood accounting, but by many metrics you could argue that Quantamania is shaping up to be the first true bomb in the MCU. It has a 200 million dollar budget. Conventional wisdom is marketing costs are at least 50% of filming budget. So you're looking at $300 million right there. When you account for the studio/theater revenue split, there's a very real chance this thing does not achieve profitability. The next week or two will tell the tale, but if it continues with these astronomical drops, it's bad news. Even if you don't want to use the word bomb, this is a tremendous underperformance for the MCU and largely unprecedented for one of their established franchises. Let alone one that was sold as setting up the next big bad after Thanos.

You combine this with the bad reception of Thor: Love and Thunder, the generally tepid reaction to most of their TV, and what seems like a precipitous decline in both audience and critical praise for their content, and Marvel is no longer bullet proof. There's a ton more criticism of the writing and filmmaking than there used to be. Even the Marvel Studios subreddit, which has a cult like defense of any criticism of the MCU, has finally started to admit there are real and significant problems with the quality level.

Feige seems to be somewhat aware of this. At the very least they're slowing down on content. There were originally supposed to be SIX MCU Disney Plus (that is frankly absurd) shows this year, but they moved all but two (Loki Season 2 and Secret Invasion) off the schedule. They have announced delays on the film schedule as well, and leaks indicate that the Phase V and VI roadmap they released a while back has already been chucked with some films possibly seeing delays of a year or more.

We will obviously have to see how this all plays out, but after a decade of sailing sunny seas of critical praise, audience enthusiasm, and high box office, it's clear things are about to get much more choppy for them.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

So we are now at what may be a pivotal moment in the history of Marvel Studios.

For those that don't keep up with the business end of things, Quantamania just had the biggest second weekend box office drop in MCU history. And the second worst drop for a super hero movie after Batman vs Superman (it could still beat it depending on final numbers Monday.) It's also the fourth worst drop for any movie that opened to a 100+ million weekend EVER. We're talking 70%. That's a massive week to week drop for a major movie let alone something with the brand strength of Marvel.

Not only did it tank domestically this weekend, the world wide numbers are abysmal too. This thing is looking at a real shot of not even hitting 500 million worldwide. Which for a Marvel movie is unheard of.

We can quibble about definitions and try to understand the arcane nonsense of Hollywood accounting, but by many metrics you could argue that Quantamania is shaping up to be the first true bomb in the MCU. It has a 200 million dollar budget. Conventional wisdom is marketing costs are at least 50% of filming budget. So you're looking at $300 million right there. When you account for the studio/theater revenue split, there's a very real chance this thing does not achieve profitability. The next week or two will tell the tale, but if it continues with these astronomical drops, it's bad news. Even if you don't want to use the word bomb, this is a tremendous underperformance for the MCU and largely unprecedented for one of their established franchises. Let alone one that was sold as setting up the next big bad after Thanos.

You combine this with the bad reception of Thor: Love and Thunder, the generally tepid reaction to most of their TV, and what seems like a precipitous decline in both audience and critical praise for their content, and Marvel is no longer bullet proof. There's a ton more criticism of the writing and filmmaking than there used to be. Even the Marvel Studios subreddit, which has a cult like defense of any criticism of the MCU, has finally started to admit there are real and significant problems with the quality level.

Feige seems to be somewhat aware of this. At the very least they're slowing down on content. There were originally supposed to be SIX MCU Disney Plus (that is frankly absurd) shows this year, but they moved all but two (Loki Season 2 and Secret Invasion) off the schedule. They have announced delays on the film schedule as well, and leaks indicate that the Phase V and VI roadmap they released a while back has already been chucked with some films possibly seeing delays of a year or more.

We will obviously have to see how this all plays out, but after a decade of sailing sunny seas of critical praise, audience enthusiasm, and high box office, it's clear things are about to get much more choppy for them.

I sometimes wonder if Disney made a mistake in making Feige overlord of all things Marvel.

 

[DaveXA]

So we are now at what may be a pivotal moment in the history of Marvel Studios.

For those that don't keep up with the business end of things, Quantamania just had the biggest second weekend box office drop in MCU history. And the second worst drop for a super hero movie after Batman vs Superman (it could still beat it depending on final numbers Monday.) It's also the fourth worst drop for any movie that opened to a 100+ million weekend EVER. We're talking 70%. That's a massive week to week drop for a major movie let alone something with the brand strength of Marvel.

Not only did it tank domestically this weekend, the world wide numbers are abysmal too. This thing is looking at a real shot of not even hitting 500 million worldwide. Which for a Marvel movie is unheard of.

We can quibble about definitions and try to understand the arcane nonsense of Hollywood accounting, but by many metrics you could argue that Quantamania is shaping up to be the first true bomb in the MCU. It has a 200 million dollar budget. Conventional wisdom is marketing costs are at least 50% of filming budget. So you're looking at $300 million right there. When you account for the studio/theater revenue split, there's a very real chance this thing does not achieve profitability. The next week or two will tell the tale, but if it continues with these astronomical drops, it's bad news. Even if you don't want to use the word bomb, this is a tremendous underperformance for the MCU and largely unprecedented for one of their established franchises. Let alone one that was sold as setting up the next big bad after Thanos.

You combine this with the bad reception of Thor: Love and Thunder, the generally tepid reaction to most of their TV, and what seems like a precipitous decline in both audience and critical praise for their content, and Marvel is no longer bullet proof. There's a ton more criticism of the writing and filmmaking than there used to be. Even the Marvel Studios subreddit, which has a cult like defense of any criticism of the MCU, has finally started to admit there are real and significant problems with the quality level.

Feige seems to be somewhat aware of this. At the very least they're slowing down on content. There were originally supposed to be SIX MCU Disney Plus (that is frankly absurd) shows this year, but they moved all but two (Loki Season 2 and Secret Invasion) off the schedule. They have announced delays on the film schedule as well, and leaks indicate that the Phase V and VI roadmap they released a while back has already been chucked with some films possibly seeing delays of a year or more.

We will obviously have to see how this all plays out, but after a decade of sailing sunny seas of critical praise, audience enthusiasm, and high box office, it's clear things are about to get much more choppy for them.

Yeah, I agree with a lot of that. I think slowing down and getting this right is wise. I'm as big an MCU supporters as you will find and I haven't hated anything they've released since Endgame, but it hasn't really felt that same since then. Not like bad or anything, but I think maybe it's too much too fast. Instead of cranking out more, slow the pace down and up the quality.

Also, I love slap stick humor as much as the next guy, but there needs to be some consequences and weight to what the post-Endgame MCU looks like. Thor as a movie on it's own was fine, but I didn't feel like it advanced the big picture narrative.

I want to see a bit darker, angry Thor who lays down the law sometimes. It current iteration is gone from funny to kinda funny, to cheesy, to almost cringey.

And the feeling for me is the whole post-Endgame series has felt muddled and out of sorts. Need to start tying some of the overarching themes together and turn down the spigot a bit. I'd rather a few hits than a bunch of marginal offerings.

 

[DaveXA]

I sometimes wonder if Disney made a mistake in making Feige overlord of all things Marvel.

Yeah, I've wondered that as well. Could be why they're talking about slowing things down.

 

[Sun Wukong]

I sometimes wonder if Disney made a mistake in making Feige overlord of all things Marvel.

He is absolutely over extended in his current role. Jeff Sneider was reporting last year thst internally what he was hearing from people at Marvel is that it was no longer the well oiled machine it once was and that Feige was spread too thin to exert the level of quality control he used to.

 

[Sun Wukong]

Yeah, I agree with a lot of that. I think slowing down and getting this right is wise. I'm as big an MCU supporters as you will find and I haven't hated anything they've released since Endgame, but it hasn't really felt that same since then. Not like bad or anything, but I think maybe it's too much too fast. Instead of cranking out more, slow the pace down and up the quality.

Also, I love slap stick humor as much as the next guy, but there needs to be some consequences and weight to what the post-Endgame MCU looks like. Thor as a movie on it's own was fine, but I didn't feel like it advanced the big picture narrative.

I want to see a bit darker, angry Thro who lays down the law sometimes. It current iteration is gone from funny to kinda funny, to cheesy, to almost cringey.

And the feeling for me is the whole post-Endgame series has felt muddled and out of sorts. Need to start tying some of the overarching themes together and turn down the spigot a bit. I'd rather a few hits than a bunch of marginal offerings.

They also need to reevaluate where their creative talent is coming from. A lot of their phase 4 and 5 writing brain trust are guys with ZERO film writing experience and many of them were poached from the Rick and Morty writers room. Which means they know how to write gags for a 24 minute cartoon, not major blockbuster movies.

I haven't seen Quantamania but general consensus from what I'm reading is the writing is pretty weak. A lot of people are expressing concern that these will be the same writers for Kang Dynasty, but with the unprecedented failure of this movie that may change.

 

[bonnjer]

For me, it's kind of like the actual comic book world. It has been so much content in such a relatively small amount of time and it all connected together that you just felt pressure to consume everything or else miss out on something. I couldn't keep up with comics and I've cut back to almost nothing. Same goes for Marvel stuff. I think the last thing we saw in theaters was Endgame. Everything else has been Disney + and sometimes not even immediately upon release.

 

[Taurus]

Yeah, I agree with a lot of that. I think slowing down and getting this right is wise. I'm as big an MCU supporters as you will find and I haven't hated anything they've released since Endgame, but it hasn't really felt that same since then. Not like bad or anything, but I think maybe it's too much too fast. Instead of cranking out more, slow the pace down and up the quality.

Also, I love slap stick humor as much as the next guy, but there needs to be some consequences and weight to what the post-Endgame MCU looks like. Thor as a movie on it's own was fine, but I didn't feel like it advanced the big picture narrative.

I want to see a bit darker, angry Thor who lays down the law sometimes. It current iteration is gone from funny to kinda funny, to cheesy, to almost cringey.

And the feeling for me is the whole post-Endgame series has felt muddled and out of sorts. Need to start tying some of the overarching themes together and turn down the spigot a bit. I'd rather a few hits than a bunch of marginal offerings.

They set up the mother of all redemption arcs with Thor and then didn't simply fail to deliver on it, they *pissed* all over it and continued to do so.
When you spend a decade creating *heroes* don't be surprised if fans lose interest when you turn on them and make them into weak, cringey dooshcanoes.

 

[Sun Wukong]

In its third weekend, Quantamania just dropped another 61%.

It's looking like a domestic run of perhaps as low as $200 million. And we may see a worldwide gross as low at $450 million. The audience has collapsed for this thing, so it will be wrapping up it's run rather quickly as theaters drop it early.

Absolutely no way to spin this. This is an absolute disaster for Marvel. There's got to be some serious conversations going on at the studio right now about how to go forward. This is their first true failure, and it's a big one.

There are some insiders claiming that they're delaying production on a bunch of movies and are planning to go back to a Phase 2-3 style release schedule of fewer movies per year.

 

[bonnjer]

In its third weekend, Quantamania just dropped another 61%.

It's looking like a domestic run of perhaps as low as $200 million. And we may see a worldwide gross as low at $450 million. The audience has collapsed for this thing, so it will be wrapping up it's run rather quickly as theaters drop it early.

Absolutely no way to spin this. This is an absolute disaster for Marvel. There's got to be some serious conversations going on at the studio right now about how to go forward. This is their first true failure, and it's a big one.

There are some insiders claiming that they're delaying production on a bunch of movies and are planning to go back to a Phase 2-3 style release schedule of fewer movies per year.

We didn't go see it. Combination of being too busy and just waiting for it to hit Disney +. I think a lot of other people probably have the same idea.

 

[Sailorsaint]

We didn't go see it. Combination of being too busy and just waiting for it to hit Disney +. I think a lot of other people probably have the same idea.

Video killed the radio star, streaming is killing the movie theater.

 

[Sun Wukong]

Video killed the radio star, streaming is killing the movie theater.

It really isn't, though. Avatar 2 is on pace for like 2.3 billion world wide even with a dampened Chinese box office.

We had Top Gun Maverick last year do 1.5 billion and become the biggest movie of Tom cruises career.

Creed III just had the strongest opening weekend of any movie in that series.

This is people bailing on the MCU. People will still go to the theater if it's a movie they're interested in seeing.

 

[DaveXA]

We didn't go see it. Combination of being too busy and just waiting for it to hit Disney +. I think a lot of other people probably have the same idea.

I'm sort of in that boat. Mainly just have had other stuff come up lately. I'll definitely watch when I have time.