Sen. Kerry says he'll be ready for the Swiftboaters next time (1 Viewer)

[RebSaint]

I really, really should have taken you to an NCO club on an Army post and let you test your theories.

What are you implying? Take issue with my points. I don't think you can. My "theory" has been proved pretty accurate by how many different EE posters from military backgrounds have different points of view. You're lumping them into one monolithic voting bloc which is patently false.

I've known lots of military people in my life--you're wrong for lumping them as having one world view or perspective. Military people come from all kinds of socio-economic backgrounds, regions, and races. There's arguably a "military culture," but it's probably just as different depending on the service, and whether one serves in combat.

The Swift Boat ads were not directed at Vietnam veterans, it was directed at those who think that supporting wars unconditionally and serving in combat is tantamount to patriotism.

 

[DadsDream]

What are you implying? Take issue with my points. I don't think you can. My "theory" has been proved pretty accurate by how many different EE posters from military backgrounds have different points of view. You're lumping them into one monolithic voting bloc which is patently false.

I've known lots of military people in my life--you're wrong for lumping them as having one world view or perspective. Military people come from all kinds of socio-economic backgrounds, regions, and races. There's arguably a "military culture," but it's probably just as different depending on the service, and whether one serves in combat.

The Swift Boat ads were not directed at Vietnam veterans, it was directed at those who think that supporting wars unconditionally and serving in combat is tantamount to patriotism.

Go try the "Kerry Got Swift Boated" song and dance with the guys in the VA Hospital in Pineville...you'll see what I mean.

 

[TPS]

My final post on the thread:

1) Swift Boat Veterans are definitely infamous
2) The People > The Military even if they turn on us
3) Real Nazis come in all different colors of uniforms
4) There are many available widows whose husbands were killed for profit
5) The only people who believe we fought in Vietnam to contain commuism or that Dick Cheney doesn't advocate endless wars to enrich his friends should be forced to appear on "Are you smarter than a 5th Grader"
6) Kerry: Silver Star, Bronze Star, 3 Purple Hearts; DadsDream Camping Badge

TPS

 

[RebSaint]

Go try the "Kerry Got Swift Boated" song and dance with the guys in the VA Hospital in Pineville...you'll see what I mean.

Really, irrelavent and a non-sequiter and I'm not really sure you have a point here. Take issue with my rebuttal to your choppy and poor logic here on the demographics and political perspective of those serving and those who have served.

 

[RebSaint]

>>I really, really should have taken you to an NCO club on an Army post and let you test your theories.

An asskicking doesn't make it right.

TPS

:likestofightguy:

 

[DadsDream]

Irrelavent and a non-sequiter. Take issue with my rebuttal to your choppy and poor logic here on the demographics and political perspective of those serving and those who have served.

Take your demographics and political perspectives about Kerry and try them out at the huge VFW hall on Rapides Avenue there in Alexandria. Seems you won't be satisfied until you learn first-hand what I'm talking about.

 

[SuperChamp]

Thanks Dads!

Your response is insensitive to those of us of my generation which already had a fully-formed opinion about John Kerry long before the 2004 campaign. For us, no Swift Boating was required. He was and is pond scum.

Dads,

You and I think very much alike and are just by pure cooincidence, the same age
I appreciate your coming on here and saying some of the things, to some of our "bretheren", that I wish I could say as well as you.

It just seems like you, (and a few others), so often get piled on by those with an opposing view. I would just like you to know, that in my opinion, there are more folks reading these posts, that have sentiments similar to yours. We may not be represented well, because we are not all as "verbous" as those you continually spar with.

John Kerry could not respond to the swifties, because they were telling the truth and it revealed his true character.

Thank you for that

 

[TPS]

>>John Kerry could not respond to the swifties, because they were telling the truth and it revealed his true character.

True character? Bottom 10 reply. And I'm officially not coming back to this thread:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408260008



TPS

 

[philipkw]

Are people that are 50-51 years old considered Vietnam-era? I realize that no one has claimed that outright but there *seems* to be some sense of ownership of that era. I mean c'mon, that would put one at about 14 when Kerry was testifying before Congress. Does an adolescent understand exactly what's going on and develop a hatred or is the hatred inherited or otherwise programmed in? NTTAWWT. I inherited a passionate, albeit irrational, hatred for the Crimson Tide so I ain't casting stones. I guess what I'm saying is that I can sort of understand servicemen from any era feeling somewhat betrayed, but I'm not sure I buy that a majority from that era shares that POV.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Every Vietnam vet in the world hates Kerry because some of DadsDream's friends at the Alexandria VFW don't like him.

Science.

 

[DadsDream]

>>John Kerry could not respond to the swifties, because they were telling the truth and it revealed his true character.

True character? Bottom 10 reply. And I'm officially not coming back to this thread:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408260008



TPS

Media Matters? Soros' bunch?

 

[TPS]

Quit bringing me back to the thread. It was the first thing that came up. I saw the chart. Not sure I've seen a debunking of it. I'm sure this is from a neo-liberal site too, but I don't follow them:

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Are people that are 50-51 years old considered Vietnam-era? I realize that no one has claimed that outright but there *seems* to be some sense of ownership of that era. I mean c'mon, that would put one at about 14 when Kerry was testifying before Congress. Does an adolescent understand exactly what's going on and develop a hatred or is the hatred inherited or otherwise programmed in? NTTAWWT. I inherited a passionate, albeit irrational, hatred for the Crimson Tide so I ain't casting stones. I guess what I'm saying is that I can sort of understand servicemen from any era feeling somewhat betrayed, but I'm not sure I buy that a majority from that era shares that POV.

I had a discussion about this with my Grandfather. He was a Sgt. Major by the time Vietnam rolled around. Made Sgt. Major in the 50's when that was nearly unheard of for a black man (his CO had to fly to DC and testify before Congress to get him promoted). He served in both WWII and Korea and was wounded in both but also finished out both despite injuries. He's as Army as they come and as patriotic as a human being can be.

According to him (and he's older than DD so by DD's own standards he's right ) many soldiers were happy Kerry was shedding light on some of the despicable things that a small minority of people in Vietnam were doing because their actions made everyone look bad but didn't represent the actions of the avg soldier. It's why my grandfather hated the draft, because people who weren't right for the job and didn't have the discipline or mentality for it ended up being given a gun and uniform and representing those that took great pride in what they did. My grandfather was active duty at the time.

So contrary to some statements there is no monolithic in step attitude to Kerry's actions.

 

[DadsDream]

Are people that are 50-51 years old considered Vietnam-era? I realize that no one has claimed that outright but there *seems* to be some sense of ownership of that era. I mean c'mon, that would put one at about 14 when Kerry was testifying before Congress. Does an adolescent understand exactly what's going on and develop a hatred or is the hatred inherited or otherwise programmed in? NTTAWWT. I inherited a passionate, albeit irrational, hatred for the Crimson Tide so I ain't casting stones. I guess what I'm saying is that I can sort of understand servicemen from any era feeling somewhat betrayed, but I'm not sure I buy that a majority from that era shares that POV.

Philip, I was 14 in April 1971. I had a classmate whose father died in Vietnam. I had classmates whose brothers and uncles were in Vietnam. My brother-in-law was in Vietnam.

I was set to register for the draft in 1973. Believe me, I was paying attention and we were all talking about it, at home, at school, everywhere..

When John Kerry sat in the Senate and ratted out his fellow servicemen, EVERYBODY saw it and formed an opinion about it, unless they were totally stoned out of their gourds, which some were.

Keep in mind, there were only two or three TV channels and Kerry's testimony was played over and over and over again by CBS, NBC and ABC...the only TV there was.

It's difficult to impart, but think of a time and place when everybody watched the same TV shows every night because there were no other TV shows. Same thing with news.

 

[DadsDream]

Quit bringing me back to the thread. It was the first thing that came up. I saw the chart. Not sure I've seen a debunking of it. I'm sure this is from a neo-liberal site too, but I don't follow them:

New York Times.

TPS, what I'm saying is that long, long before the 2004 election, Kerry's name carried the same connotations as that of Jane Fonda among the more hawkish crowd of the era...very negative, no Swift Boating required. They hated him already for ratting out his comrades-in-arms for his own political gain. That's all.