Since When Did First Time HCs Have a Say in Finding a GM Become a Trend? (9 Viewers)

[Rouxble]

I personally think there need to be a good partnership but also some checks and balances between the two positions. Saints fans blame Payton for the cap and the roster, but the traditional role has been for GMs to manage those things and the coaches to coach the rosters they are given. Now if Payton (or DA more recently) did demand certain things that were risky and put the teams ability to sign their own free agents or saddle the team with a player they no longer want, then the GM should be the voice of reason that prevents that in some cases.

That is why I'm not totally against getting them as a pair with a common vision but different responsibilities. What I don't like is the coach making the demands, the GM giving them what they want and washing their hands of the responsibility after the coach has been fired.

I would agree the coach can’t have total control to the point they can burn the house down when their seat gets hot, but GM’s tend to allow it anyway since their seats might be just as warm when a team is struggling.

Ideally, the GM would do everything he can to support the coach within some guardrails set by the team president. A winning team may get more leeway for using future assets to not waste a championship window, but a losing/middling team may be more restricted in using future assets in order to allow for a foundation of success to be established before making an all-in move.

 

[greatshow25]

It has been well documented with the bears over the last 10 years. They hire a GM keep the coach. Then the GM fires the coach gets his coach and QB. Then he gets fired and it repeats. Most coaches want a GM that they are tied with so they will have more longevity and say.

 

[60minutes]

It's been a thing and it generally happens in situations where a team is seeking a new HC and GM. As I mentioned in another thread, just as coaches talk to one another about the possibility of working together, so do coaches and GMs. So, GMs tend to have candidates that they want to work with--sometimes a particular one rather than a set of candidates and the same is true for coaches who often want to work with certain front office personnel with whom they see themselves in alignment. It makes sense. Both the GM and the coach want to make sure they can work together.

But it is rare that a HC will go in and demand or request that a GM is fired or reassigned to another role. If the organization hasn't had recent success, and the coach is very influential, you can see ownership choose defer to a coach over a GM. For example, when Jon Gruden and Reggie McKenzie kept butting heads, the Raiders chose to fire McKenzie. And then Gruden got to hire his guy, which ended up being Mike Mayock with Jon having the final say on personnel decisions. But again, that is rare. In most instances, you get a GM who might come in and have a particular coach he wants to hire. Like Chris Ballard wanted Josh Daniels but had to wait a year. Or Bob Quinn wanted Matty Patricia but had to wait two years. Or even Kwesi Adofo-Mensah wanted Jim Harbaugh though there was push back within the organization and they chose not to offer Jim a contract; instead, O'Connell was eventually hired.

In some cases, an influential or highly-sought-after coach might ask to have final say over personnel decisions if a GM is already in place. For instance, Sean Payton has final say over Denver's roster though he and George have found a way to work together.

 

[60minutes]

It has been well documented with the bears over the last 10 years. They hire a GM keep the coach. Then the GM fires the coach gets his coach and QB. Then he gets fired and it repeats. Most coaches want a GM that they are tied with so they will have more longevity and say.

I know in the Bears last coaching hire, there were certainly GM candidates tied to certain coaches. But the crazy thing is, once they hired Ryan Poles, they basically told him to choose between Matt Eberflus, Dan Quinn, and Jim Caldwell. Now, in fairness, they had asked him to name some of the coaches he felt he could work with and Eberflus and Quinn's names had both come up. And there was some particular reasons why Ryan chose Matt, which were incredibly shortsighted. But still, he had another coach in mind he wanted at the time (was at the top of his list) but the Bears hadn't interviewed the person. So, in a sense Ryan made the choice and in a sense he didn't.

 

[Saint KayBee]

I think the Jets were a unique situation, given that they had an open GM position.

I don't recall this being a HC demand in the past, maybe the levers of power are shifting.

Loomis sure as hell deserves to be fired.

The Jets have also been upside-down on this recently, with the whole Mike Maccanagan/Joe Douglas/Adam Gase/Sam Darnold mess.

 

[Kingston]

I just read an article last week which if I can dig it up I will link it. New coaches coming up right now view themselves as the commander of the ship the GM has a role which is “make it happen” the coaches are giving the orders and the GM goes out and executes the coaches wishes. Which makes sense honestly you want to get the players your charged with coaching.

They view the GM’s role simply as you tell me if we can do this yes or no.

 

[Mamba]

Pat Kirwan has said in the past the ideal org structure is the one where the HC has authority over all football decisions, and that can only be the case if the GM is in a support role instead of a managerial one.

This is what Mike Lombardi (Now GM of UNC w/ Belichick) says as well. The best organizations are aligned under one single vision/program, and the HC is the ideal person to run it.

Now, all of that hinges upon having a CEO-minded HC, and those guys are becoming few & far between. Lots of these young HCs are really glorified coordinators who contract out the other side of the ball and don’t really know how to run a team and lead every part of the organization.

 

[ravenblade23x]

Maybe I am wrong on this, but its seems first time HC candidates are starting to be way more selective. Feels like Ben Johnson has been a top HC pick for the last 3 seasons. BJ made not end up being a good HC, but it feels like waiting for the Bears job will likely give him a better chance at success.

In Coen's case, he can take a job working for a GM that is regularly referred to as one of the worst in the NFL or he can stay in Tampa and become the highest paid OC in the league. This put's the Jag's in a spot where if they really want Coen bad enough they have to fire there GM.