The Fundamental Questions Facing the Saints Organization and Ownership (1 Viewer)

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Saint Jack said:
Jerry really got lucky that one of his friends turned out to have one of the greatest football minds ever.
Had that turned out like every other coach Jerry has hired, we’d be talking about a fifty year Super Bowl drought for Dallas.
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That may be true, but that still doesn't take away what Jones has done. You weren't even alive when Jones bought the team and fired Tom Landry. It was a huge deal. It may not have been all Jones, sure, but it was Jones who brought it about by his actions.

Getting lucky is part of it. Do the Saints have a SB if things don't align to get a coach who didn't want to coach in N.O. and a QB who didn't want to play in N.O.? And somehow this pairing turns into magic? No.
 
Not going anywhere with DA, he is who he is at this point, a bad headcoach. He's is essentially a substitute teacher, you think there would be attention to detail problems and WR's running wrong routes in week 6 of a season with Payton here?


Loomis needs to step down, its been blunder after blunder. Need to wipe this slate clean. The best thing DA can do is never win another game this season and get an attractive draft pick to lure a good offensive minded coach but we all know whats going to happen. DA is gonna have this team middle of the pack, 7-10, 8-9 and have a mid round pick that Loomis is gonna shop around to jump up to snag some small school project. The Apologists in the media that wanna stay cozy with Airline drive are gonna scapegoat Pete Carmichael's play calling and completely overlook how undisciplined and low football IQ product that has been showcased under a DA coached team. I can already hear how "DA needs another season with a real OC" starting to warm up, its complete apologist nonsense, just like the "You can't fire him after one season" "Oh, look at all the injuries."

Dude should have been axed after last year but I can probably blame Stefanski for deciding to throw the football 30+ times in 10degree weather in Cleveland and throwing that game. Remember, that is when everyone saw the locker room speech and was saying "Oh, they haven't quit on DA, he needs another season!"
 
SystemShock said:
That may be true, but that still doesn't take away what Jones has done. You weren't even alive when Jones bought the team and fired Tom Landry. It was a huge deal. It may not have been all Jones, sure, but it was Jones who brought it about by his actions.

Getting lucky is part of it. Do the Saints have a SB if things don't align to get a coach who didn't want to coach in N.O. and a QB who didn't want to play in N.O.? And somehow this pairing turns into magic? No.
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What coach/QB are you referring too?
 
I was 100% confident on a rebuild last season. That rebuild would have included trading away Cam, Davis and AK, three of my favorite players. It isn't fair to them to waste their last productive seasons being part of a rebuild and the Saints would have had an obligation to maximize their value at the time. I was against signing Carr as I did not think he was good enough, particularly in big situations to deliver a championship. I was ok with bringing back Dennis Allen but only as a lame duck to start the rebuild.

I thought this season was perfect to give Jameis or some random young QB a real chance and let a young rookie back him up. Basically a lottery play to see if we can hit paydirt on a QB. Put our young guys on the field to get some experience and washed out as much dead money as possible. Then go into the 2024 season with a ton of great draft picks, hire a new young and energetic coaching staff and get our QB in the draft. Then we would have a really good young nucleus to build around on both sides of the ball. I think in the 2025 season we would be highly competitive and have a team that was built to compete for a long time and be in a financial position to go get some real impact players through trades and free agency. We could have freed up $100M of cap space going into 2025.

That one extra season means our young nucleus is one season older, our veterans that we could have traded lost significant value just being a year older and we spent a ton of money on Carr. We've committed to this season so we have to try and maximize our chances. If it doesn't work then we clean house but it sets everything back a lot. We could have been a sure thing for a top 5 pick with two picks at the top of the second round pick plus whatever we got from trading away some excellent players.

I sure hope I'm proven wrong but I'm confident I will not be. However, that confidence has gone from 100% to 90%. Our defense has shown me enough that I think with a little more pressure from our dline that there is a chance we could put together one of those once in a decade type runs where a defense is so dominant it doesn't matter what the offense does.

The last thing I want to see is a team stuck hovering around .500 for several years in a row. It's just a waste of everyone's time.
 
Saint Jack said:
When did Payton ever say or show he wanted out of NOLA? The guy spent 16 years here.
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Well, for one, Payton did a couple seasons ago, but the point isn't that they wanted out of N.O. while they were here... the point is, had they had their choice, they would not had made it to NO: Payton wanted the GB job and Brees wanted to be in Miami. But everything aligned for Payton (McCarthy got the GB job) and Brees (didn't sign with Miami because Miami wasn't sure the shoulder was going to hold up) to get to N.O. and eventually win a SB together. In that, there was a certain amount of luck that landed both in N.O.
 
SystemShock said:
Well, for one, Payton did a couple seasons ago, but the point isn't that they wanted out of N.O. while they were here... the point is, had they had their choice, they would not had made it to NO: Payton wanted the GB job and Brees wanted to be in Miami. But everything aligned for Payton (McCarthy got the GB job) and Brees (didn't sign with Miami because Miami wasn't sure the shoulder was going to hold up) to get to N.O. and eventually win a SB together. In that, there was a certain amount of luck that landed both in N.O.
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In 2005, the franchise was in a terrible state. The Archbishop Rummel coaching job was better than the Saints in 2005.
Yes, Payton did want the GB job and Brees did want Miami, but they quickly embraced the franchise for 16 years.
 
Saint Jack said:
In 2005, the franchise was in a terrible state. The Archbishop Rummel coaching job was better than the Saints in 2005.
Yes, Payton did want the GB job and Brees did want Miami, but they quickly embraced the franchise for 16 years.
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... and none of that is relevant to the fact that things aligned (i.e., luck) to get Payton and Brees in N.O. at the right time. No one saw it coming, Payton and Brees pairing up to run one of the best offenses of all time, or that they'd win a SB together.
 
SystemShock said:
... and none of that is relevant to the fact that things aligned (i.e., luck) to get Payton and Brees in N.O. at the right time. No one saw it coming, Payton and Brees pairing up to run one of the best offenses of all time, or that they'd win a SB together.
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But you can say that with EVERY franchise.
It was luck that the Patriots hired BB and a 7th round draft pick turned out to be the best QB ever.
The Eagles had 1 lucky championship season.

You can point to every Super Bowl team and say it was luck. That’s a part of how the League works.
 
People speak of rebuilds like it’s an automatic ticket into longterm championship contention. There are too many teams that have been horrid to mid for over a decade due to continuous rebuilding. Blowing things up just to do it is neither wise nor necessary.

We are only three years removed from our franchise QB retiring. In that time, we’ve been in the playoff hunt up until the last few weeks of the season. That’s with historical injuries to most of the roster and shuffling of QB1s.
We have signed great vets/FAs. Scouted great talent and drafted contributors to this franchise. Our defense is still mostly stout. Even with the dreadful playcalling, we’re still a game & 1/2 out of 1st place. With a decent OC, most on this board would agree we’re at worst 4-2.

We don’t need to rebuild. We need to get a real OC, who can maximize talent. We definitely don’t need a new GM. The idea ML has held us back is beyond laughable to me, especially when a good chunk of the league is now employing his and Khai’s savvy accounting tricks. Too many fans let emotions win out over logic. We have the pieces; most fans/analysts believed this to be true before the season. 6 games in and suddenly we’re the Bears.
 
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Saint Jack said:
But you can say that with EVERY franchise.
It was luck that the Patriots hired BB and a 7th round draft pick turned out to be the best QB ever.
The Eagles had 1 lucky championship season.

You can point to every Super Bowl team and say it was luck. That’s a part of how the League works.
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Yes. You can.

May I remind you, you were the one who brought up luck in the first place?
 

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