Tier 5 - update your resume/ Dennis Allen (1 Viewer)

[Rouxble]

The key to this season, with this roster (which should be a very good one) is going to be DA either realizing he needs to take chances offensively or delegating the offensive decisions to someone who does......

Honest question, is there any example of a head coach delegating 4th down decision making to someone else? My strong assumption is no, it never has happened and never will happen.

Allen might take more chances this year depending on how the offense looks, but remember that they are just that… chances. Everyone was losing their mind when Kamara failed to convert a 4th down against Carolina and listed all the MMQB reasons it was a bad call.

When we pass up a field goal for a failed 4th down attempt this year and lose the game by 2, will we support the process or judge the result? Is Allen a loser for losing that game, or is he a calculated risk taker that got unlucky?

 

[Cage1]

I have a bigger beef with Sean's ranking. The reason he's so low is because "let's see how he does without Drew Brees". but Belechick is top tier but has never won anything without Brady. Seems inconsistent.

 

[Rouxble]

I have a bigger beef with Sean's ranking. The reason he's so low is because "let's see how he does without Drew Brees". but Belechick is top tier but has never won anything without Brady. Seems inconsistent.

Belichick is batting .500 post Brady. I don’t think anyone considers Mac Jones a clear cut franchise QB, and winning half of your games in the NFL without one is not an easy hill to climb.

I think the Bucs won’t have as soft of a landing as the Patriots have had with Brady out of the building.

 

[RJS]

Dave is absolutely correct, the rules are geared hard towards the offense in today's NFL, if you don't take chances offensively you will lose a lot of close games.....the Saints were (I believe) close to or last in 4th down attempts....that is losing football......4-9 football....

The key to this season, with this roster (which should be a very good one) is going to be DA either realizing he needs to take chances offensively or delegating the offensive decisions to someone who does......

The Saints went for it on 4th down 11 times last year. The Chiefs and the Bengals went for it on 4th down 12 times last year. Cleveland and Arizona were the two teams with the most 4th down attempts (42 and 41 respectively).

I guess I'd rather be lumped with the "losing football" that KC and Cinci are playing...

In other words, I don't think there's much correlation with going for it on 4th down and winning football games. There needs to be some context.

 

[perret318]

Dennis Allen has coached some of the best Defenses we’ve seen. He’s got something going on.

Yes, as a defensive coordinator.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

I don’t think anyone considers Mac Jones a clear cut franchise QB

there was that one guy

 

[dtc]

Dave is absolutely correct, the rules are geared hard towards the offense in today's NFL, if you don't take chances offensively you will lose a lot of close games.....the Saints were (I believe) close to or last in 4th down attempts....that is losing football......4-9 football....

The key to this season, with this roster (which should be a very good one) is going to be DA either realizing he needs to take chances offensively or delegating the offensive decisions to someone who does......

DA has delegated the O to someone entirely and the notion that risk equals winning is absurd. Risk for the sake of risk is how you end up with 30 interceptions and 5 wins. Risk that CSP took were calculated and still bit him from time to time.

 

[sfidc3]

Honest question, is there any example of a head coach delegating 4th down decision making to someone else? My strong assumption is no, it never has happened and never will happen.

Allen might take more chances this year depending on how the offense looks, but remember that they are just that… chances. Everyone was losing their mind when Kamara failed to convert a 4th down against Carolina and listed all the MMQB reasons it was a bad call.

When we pass up a field goal for a failed 4th down attempt this year and lose the game by 2, will we support the process or judge the result? Is Allen a loser for losing that game, or is he a calculated risk taker that got unlucky?

I think it is fairly rare but I would bet some of the better OC's over the years had that level of discretion.....regardless, I want a coach that is willing to take chances offensively, does it always work out? No....does it give you a chance to win big and close games, Yes.....

A lot of us older folks have already experienced a coach like that (Jim Mora)......0 playoff wins in his career.....

The Saints went for it on 4th down 11 times last year. The Chiefs and the Bengals went for it on 4th down 12 times last year. Cleveland and Arizona were the two teams with the most 4th down attempts (42 and 41 respectively).

I guess I'd rather be lumped with the "losing football" that KC and Cinci are playing...

In other words, I don't think there's much correlation with going for it on 4th down and winning football games. There needs to be some context.

I would argue that 1) Chiefs and the Bengals see far fewer 4th downs than last years Saints offense and 2) Chiefs and Bengals on 4th and short go for it more than they don't.....I don't have the stats to back up 2) but see if I can find them....

I agree on the context part but DA passed up going for a ton of 4th and shorts.....that is not Saints football or winning football....

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

The Saints went for it on 4th down 11 times last year. The Chiefs and the Bengals went for it on 4th down 12 times last year. Cleveland and Arizona were the two teams with the most 4th down attempts (42 and 41 respectively).

I guess I'd rather be lumped with the "losing football" that KC and Cinci are playing...

In other words, I don't think there's much correlation with going for it on 4th down and winning football games. There needs to be some context.

The flip side of that says that KC and CIN don't have as much a value on 4th and short posession because they feel they'll just get it next time...but us, 4th and 1? We need to roll the dice more becuase we were more conservative on 1st 2nd and 3rd down...we might not get that close next time

 

[sfidc3]

DA has delegated the O to someone entirely

You know this for sure? That Pete Charmichal is the 4th down decider? I highly doubt that.....

notion that risk equals winning is absurd. Risk for the sake of risk is how you end up with 30 interceptions and 5 wins.

No one is saying that.....

Risk that CSP took were calculated and still bit him from time to time.

No shirt Sherlock, of course they are calculated. CSP always had confidence that his offense could get the 4th and shorts, it doesn't always work out, would rather lose fighting than punting......his willingness to take chances are one of the major reasons we have a SB title......

 

[David Robbins]

Allen is still the HC, and the decisions are his to make. His job is on the line. He won't give those decisions to another

 

[dtc]

You know this for sure? That Pete Charmichal is the 4th down decider? I highly doubt that.....



No one is saying that.....



No shirt Sherlock, of course they are calculated. CSP always had confidence that his offense could get the 4th and shorts, it doesn't always work out, would rather lose fighting than punting......his willingness to take chances are one of the major reasons we have a SB title......

DA and PC had no confidence that our offense with Dalton and a bunch of street free agents could pull off miracles. And, for good reason.

 

[Rouxble]

The flip side of that says that KC and CIN don't have as much a value on 4th and short posession because they feel they'll just get it next time...but us, 4th and 1? We need to roll the dice more becuase we were more conservative on 1st 2nd and 3rd down...we might not get that close next time

It’s an interesting point, similar to a turnover being more costly for a conservative offense than one that can get down the field in a couple of plays.

You risk losing the ball on the attempt, but a first down in the red zone has more expected points than taking the field goal.

 

[sfidc3]

DA and PC had no confidence that our offense with Dalton and a bunch of street free agents could pull off miracles. And, for good reason.

I know of a coach that coached a team the year before that had even more injuries and didn't have an up and coming 1st round WR on the roster either, he also had to start 4 different QB's.....and still went 9-8.....

But, we are talking in circles.....DA is the HC this coming year, I'm hoping he does better, much better....

 

[EGLSShin]

He doesn't make it to 10 games if this season goes haywire for whatever reason. He got everything he asked for and more this offseason.