Virginia Traffic Tickets (3 Viewers)

Waymer, I've heard those statistics before, and believe they are accurate overall when factoring in every driver (good and bad ones.) But you are making the mistake that only "fast" drivers will receive these extreme penalties, and that all of the speed limits are fair. And yes, my examples were over the top. That was intentional. These fines are over the top. Hence the point... Glad you picked up on that.

There are numerous areas that drastically reduce the speed limits out of nowhere and are designed speed traps. Therefore if you are going the speed limit of 60 mph, and they drop the speed limit to 30 in an obvious design to give you tickets, then guess what? You got a huge fine.

My grandma was also rushing to the hospital from new orleans to alexandria to come see my mother when I was born, and during that time, she received a ticket. Under this law, she would have to pay thousands of dollars. But 99.999% of the time, she'd be the ideal driver by your standards.

My mother is a very slow and careful driver, but I remember a time that she was driving my car and was unused to the feel of the car. She was going over 90 and didn't realize it. She would never go that fast on purpose, but people make mistakes.

And I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the people on this board have at one time in their life forgotten to change lanes without using a signal, or gone faster than 15 over the speed limit, or some other action on here that would qualify for these unrational penalties. Don't you see? All it takes is one mistake, and you are screwed.

Furthermore, the government is getting closer and closer to monitoring and controlling our lives. Traffic light cameras, speeding cameras? As technology advances, we will be under more and more constant surveilance by the government. Our privacy will be a thing of the past. They are even using your smart passes for tolls to track how fast you are traveling between tolls and are issuing tickets as a result. They are taking pictures of our license plates, and they can track our movements. They are also accumulating data from your very own car about your driving habits that can potentially be used against you. These are just things that are ALREADY happening. What about tomorrow as technology advances? Every one of your little mistakes will become known. And as governments need for money increases, they will design more and more traps in order to gain more and more money.

And I see them increasing penalties and ways to catch mistakes for breaking the traffic laws, but do they increase the speed limits to keep up with the increasing technological advances? No, of course not. According to a show I saw on tv, studies have shown that we could increase the speed limits without additional accidents, and it might even prevent accidents as the disparity of speeds between drivers is decreased. (That same disparity that you mentioned in your article.) However the government hasn't budged on the speed limits. The government doesn't try to protect us, they try to exploit us to gain more money. They even admitted that this bill was not about safety, it was about money. AKA We are going to trap you into making mistakes, and take your money cause we are too chicken to tax you or cut programs that are wasteful.

Finally, I haven't had a ticket in 12 years. I got only one, and it was right when I first started driving at 15 years old. It happens. I'm a good driver, but all it takes is one mistake.

MLU, every second I spend in a car is a second I'm not at work, spending time with my family, working out, or on vacation, or whatever else I feel like doing. And if you are going cross country on vacations, adding 20 MPH to your speed over a trip accross the country can really add up. It's obvious that technology has advanced to the point where we can safely drive 80 MPH or more on empty interstates. (We have 80 and 85 MPH speed limits in certain sections of this country, and in Germany, drivers go well over 100 MPH on a routine basis.) And these disparities in our own country show the hypocrisy of the speed limits throughout the country. The laws are not focused on traffic safety as they should be. And I'm protesting that. Why is no one else on the Saint's board backing me up? I don't know, perhaps cause it doesn't really apply to them and they aren't worried about it. However Virginia residents are HIGHLY upset about it here, because it applies to them. I think the petition had about 150,000 signatures on it, but the radio talk shows, etc are flooded with POed people. So it's not like I'm the only one. I didn't even create the petition, I just signed it.

You said "perhaps the virginia drivers are just that bad?" Again, it's not about traffic safety, it's about raising revenue for roads. They even admitted this. And just because you have a perfect "driving record" doesn't mean you are a perfect driver. All it means is that you just haven't been caught yet. And even if you don't get caught? What about when your kids are learning to drive, but they make that mistake of forgetting to use their turn signal? Teenagers can't afford to pay these penalties, and teenagers will forget to use their turn signals every once in awhile. They are just learning!

Guys, try to look beyond the easy targets of "bad drivers that are threatening everyone's life" and see that this could easily affect you or someone in your family just for an honest mistake. All it takes is one time. And unless you are perfect, you should be against these extreme penalties for small mistakes that aren't hurting anyone.
 
OMG stop talking about it, the law is the law, get over it! Like I said, if you don't speed, then you have nothing to worry about. They are not going to change the law anytime soon, so just get on with your life man.
 
Well if you want to be technical, you can kill legally kill someone if it's right. AKA Self defense... but nice try. Thanks for playing.

I have no problem following authority, just as long as it makes sense. However anyone who thinks the government ALWAYS does the right thing, is extremely naive. And if a law doesn't make sense, I have the right to question it and protest it. I still follow all the laws for the most part (ok, who doesn't speed at some point in their life.) And believe we need to follow the law. But we must remain active in the political process and make our opinions known.

Here are some quotes from one of the guys who helped shape the foundation of this country. I'm just trying to follow his advise...

“If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.”
Thomas Jefferson

“Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny”
Thomas Jefferson

“A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither”
Thomas Jefferson

“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.”
Thomas Jefferson

“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”
Thomas Jefferson


Pulling out the Thomas Jefferson Quote book, NICE!!!!! SWEEEET!!!!
 
What's the Easiest way, not to get a speeding ticket? not to speed! It doesn't matter if the person setting the speed limit is an idiot, most of of them are, when you speed, you break the law. When you break the law, you suffer the consquences, be it a 5 dollar fine or a 5000 dollar fine. Seems toi me that, you want them to change the fine to 100 dollars ever time you get cuaght speeding, so you can just spped, pay the fine, and conintue to break the law, have you ever thought that people like you are the reason they set the fine so high?
 
Waymer, I've heard those statistics before, and believe they are accurate overall when factoring in every driver (good and bad ones.) But you are making the mistake that only "fast" drivers will receive these extreme penalties, and that all of the speed limits are fair. And yes, my examples were over the top. That was intentional. These fines are over the top. Hence the point... Glad you picked up on that.
I am not under the impression that all speed limits are fair. I feel some should be raised, but I also understand the risk of getting a ticket if I do speed. You should too.

There are numerous areas that drastically reduce the speed limits out of nowhere and are designed speed traps. Therefore if you are going the speed limit of 60 mph, and they drop the speed limit to 30 in an obvious design to give you tickets, then guess what? You got a huge fine.
Show me this place where speed limits drop from 60 to 30 with absolutely no warning. I do not believe you at all. I'm sure there are places where it does drop, but it is certainly not out of nowhere as you claim. I'm 100% sure there is signage indicating it...and if there isn't then you have all the right in the world to fight the ticket. But I don't believe that is the case.

My grandma was also rushing to the hospital from new orleans to alexandria to come see my mother when I was born, and during that time, she received a ticket. Under this law, she would have to pay thousands of dollars. But 99.999% of the time, she'd be the ideal driver by your standards.
Look, if you get a bad cop in that case then it sucks. But most cops are not going to cite you for reckless driving in that case...most cops won't even give you a ticket. I have no facts to back that up, it is strictly my opinion and I would agree with you in that case. But again, you are grasping at straws if you are worried about something that at the most could happen about 4 times in someone's life.

My mother is a very slow and careful driver, but I remember a time that she was driving my car and was unused to the feel of the car. She was going over 90 and didn't realize it. She would never go that fast on purpose, but people make mistakes.
Again, I'm sure she is. But you are responsible for your actions...mistake or not. If you don't know that you are going 90 then I'm not sure you would be aware of many things.

And I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the people on this board have at one time in their life forgotten to change lanes without using a signal, or gone faster than 15 over the speed limit, or some other action on here that would qualify for these unrational penalties. Don't you see? All it takes is one mistake, and you are screwed.
I knowingly change lanes sometimes without a signal, and I knowingly speed. Forget about mistakes, people do it on purpose. And you know what, I know the risks of getting a ticket if I am caught. So be it, that's the chance I take...and it's the chance you take also.

Furthermore, the government is getting closer and closer to monitoring and controlling our lives. Traffic light cameras, speeding cameras? As technology advances, we will be under more and more constant surveilance by the government. Our privacy will be a thing of the past. They are even using your smart passes for tolls to track how fast you are traveling between tolls and are issuing tickets as a result. They are taking pictures of our license plates, and they can track our movements. They are also accumulating data from your very own car about your driving habits that can potentially be used against you. These are just things that are ALREADY happening. What about tomorrow as technology advances? Every one of your little mistakes will become known. And as governments need for money increases, they will design more and more traps in order to gain more and more money.
So what? This has nothing to do with the speeding / reckless driving debate. Save that for one of your other conspiracy theory threads. Things are happening every day that people don't know about or don't care about...but they don't have anything to do with the debate at hand.

And I see them increasing penalties and ways to catch mistakes for breaking the traffic laws, but do they increase the speed limits to keep up with the increasing technological advances? No, of course not. According to a show I saw on tv, studies have shown that we could increase the speed limits without additional accidents, and it might even prevent accidents as the disparity of speeds between drivers is decreased. (That same disparity that you mentioned in your article.) However the government hasn't budged on the speed limits. The government doesn't try to protect us, they try to exploit us to gain more money. They even admitted that this bill was not about safety, it was about money. AKA We are going to trap you into making mistakes, and take your money cause we are too chicken to tax you or cut programs that are wasteful.
Again, I don't care. I would welcome it in my state as a way to bring in more revenue. Here is what I don't get. How is it a trap? It is not a trap. It's a law, everyone knows about it based on the coverage it is getting...you make a choice to drive recklessly...you don't make 20 mph mistakes. If you do, well then you are a great definition of a reckless driver.

Finally, I haven't had a ticket in 12 years. I got only one, and it was right when I first started driving at 15 years old. It happens. I'm a good driver, but all it takes is one mistake.
Again, mistake? A mistake is going 5 over...not 15. Instead of mistake perhaps you mean a lapse in judgment.
MLU, every second I spend in a car is a second I'm not at work, spending time with my family, working out, or on vacation, or whatever else I feel like doing. And if you are going cross country on vacations, adding 20 MPH to your speed over a trip accross the country can really add up. It's obvious that technology has advanced to the point where we can safely drive 80 MPH or more on empty interstates. (We have 80 and 85 MPH speed limits in certain sections of this country, and in Germany, drivers go well over 100 MPH on a routine basis.) And these disparities in our own country show the hypocrisy of the speed limits throughout the country. The laws are not focused on traffic safety as they should be. And I'm protesting that. Why is no one else on the Saint's board backing me up? I don't know, perhaps cause it doesn't really apply to them and they aren't worried about it. However Virginia residents are HIGHLY upset about it here, because it applies to them. I think the petition had about 150,000 signatures on it, but the radio talk shows, etc are flooded with POed people. So it's not like I'm the only one. I didn't even create the petition, I just signed it.
Of course the majority of them are upset...they probably routinely break this law. If you don't like the law then come the next election you have a chance to find a candidate who also doesn't like the law. And this isn't a cross country law, it's a Virgina law...so no, time still isn't that big of an issue.

You said "perhaps the virginia drivers are just that bad?" Again, it's not about traffic safety, it's about raising revenue for roads. They even admitted this. And just because you have a perfect "driving record" doesn't mean you are a perfect driver. All it means is that you just haven't been caught yet. And even if you don't get caught? What about when your kids are learning to drive, but they make that mistake of forgetting to use their turn signal? Teenagers can't afford to pay these penalties, and teenagers will forget to use their turn signals every once in awhile. They are just learning!
Actually it is about bad drivers. If there are no bad drivers then they will not raise any funds. However there are plenty of bad drivers, so they targeted them.

I'm not concerned about my son having this law hurt him. If a kid forgets to use a turn signal and is hit immediately with a $3k fine, then call me. And regarding payment, I'm pretty sure I read there will be a payment plan if you can't pay immediately.

Guys, try to look beyond the easy targets of "bad drivers that are threatening everyone's life" and see that this could easily affect you or someone in your family just for an honest mistake. All it takes is one time. And unless you are perfect, you should be against these extreme penalties for small mistakes that aren't hurting anyone.
In closing I think you should relax and take St. Greatness' advice and get over it. Who even knows how it will be applied at this point. Plenty of laws are ignored by officers on a routine basis because believe it or not, they do have compassion in numerous cases.
 
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I think we have all made our points, so I'll let this debate die off. I still believe it's quite possible to mistakenly break this law without even realizing it. Sometimes you are new to an area, and don't know what the speed limit is. Plenty of times, there's not adequate signage. In most major cities, you have decent signage throughout. However, it's ussually in smaller "towns" that prey on drivers and bring out the really unethical stuff. I definitely don't routinely drive over 20 mph over the speedlimit. However if I ever do make that mistake, I don't want to get strapped with extreme penalties and insurance increases. Over the course of a life time of driving, it's entirely possible to happen to me at least once. It's also possible it could happen to you. And personally, I don't want to have to rely on a cop (who might be having a bad day) to do the right thing. And judge's are powerless to reduce or change the level of fine, even if it makes sense to do so. We shouldn't even put in a position of enduring a penalty is not proportional to the offense.

This is the land of the free, and penalties should be in proportion to the offense. Unlike other countries, we don't cut off hands for stealing. We don't beat people with canes. The concept of "cruel and unussual punishment" is a critical part of the foundation that our forefathers built this country on, along with questioning our government and speaking out against it when we believe them to be wrong. And I believe that extends to having punishments that fit the crime, and not having punishments designed as taxes instead of for the public safety.

And call all of my protests "conspiracy theories," but without the spirit of questioning the status quo, America would never have been formed. And on that note, I'll end by quoting Thomas Jefferson. There were many in his day who thought he was crazy and should just blindly follow the law. But without him, we wouldn't have one of the greatest documents in US history that ultimately became the start of the United States of America.

“Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny”
Thomas Jefferson
 
A $3k judgement isn't going to sink anyone. If you can't pay it, its not like they seize your house or your car. It just stays on your credit report until you pay it off.
 
Also, I am curious as to why you are championing this cause by yourself? Does no one else feel the way that you do? Are you the only person on the entire forum of over 15,000 members with this opinion?

Actually, I not very happy about this myself. I think the punishment is far to high in proportion to the crime, I find it incredibly unfair that these uber-fines are only applicable to Virginia drivers, and I don't think the good (road improvements,) that can come from this outweigh the possible abuses by certain officers of questionable ethics, shall we say.

I simply do not think it a wise idea to use the police department as tax collectors, which is the purpose of these fines.
 
A $3k judgement isn't going to sink anyone. If you can't pay it, its not like they seize your house or your car. It just stays on your credit report until you pay it off.

until they start garnishing dude's paycheck
 
ah, finally some support on here. thanks guys!

and this got me thinking... I wonder if this will endanger police even further when they pull people over and they are faced with several thousand dollar fines. will we see increased car chases or attacks on police for this? it may have no affect, but it might have some relation. pure speculation, not something I care to debate.
 
And are all speeding limits fair and reasonable? Not even close. Furthermore, what's reasonable for one driver is not reasonable for another driver. I know plenty of driver's who shouldn't be driving period. What about the elderly who can't see anything? I know they have to drive to take care of themselves and might not have any other choice, but they are also endangering the lives of everyone.

The capabilities of a driver is relative to the individual driver. Therefore I believe the penalties should be for accidents, not trivial traffic laws that have little to no relevance to driver safety. Sure there are some good traffic laws out there as well, but just as many crazy ones. If you can handle driving 80 miles an hour safely, then you shouldn't be penalized thousands of dollars because of it.

Now if you drink and drive? Or if you kill someone, then go nuts. But driving 10 to 20 miles an hour over a speed limit on an empty highway should not merit such a steep penalty. This is ridiculous.

I bet you don't even wear a seat belt!!! ...because you are too good of a driver and that you don't need to.

Tell me, where in Virginia do you live so that way I can avoid driving anywhere close to you.

Speed limits are made for drivers with attitudes like you.
 
Well, if you don't get caught, you have nothing to worry about. I'd sign the petition, but like I said in my earlier post, the government is not going to change or get rid of this law......for now.

Governor Kaine said they'd revisit it in January, which, of course, is after the elections. Right now the Republicans, which are the majority in the state Senate and House, are being blamed for these new fines, as they should be since they drafted and pushed this, and they are trying to get the Governor to call a special session, but he won't. Every house and senate seat are up for grabs and I think he's hoping this creates a big enough controversy that the republicans lose some seats.
 
I bet you don't even wear a seat belt!!! ...because you are too good of a driver and that you don't need to.

Tell me, where in Virginia do you live so that way I can avoid driving anywhere close to you.

Speed limits are made for drivers with attitudes like you.

Actually I always wear a seatbelt, but thanks for making baseless assumptions. Fact of the matter is, technology has advanced, but speed limits have not. Also, the severity of the offense does NOT match the severity of the penalty. Fact, even the BEST of drivers make mistakes, and I would imagine every driver on this board has at one time done something to earn one of these extreme fines. I would also bet anything that you have done something to merit one of these fines as well, so don't go off on me for my driving habits when you don't know me and you aren't perfect yourself.
 
Actually I always wear a seatbelt, but thanks for making baseless assumptions. Fact of the matter is, technology has advanced, but speed limits have not. Also, the severity of the offense does NOT match the severity of the penalty. Fact, even the BEST of drivers make mistakes, and I would imagine every driver on this board has at one time done something to earn one of these extreme fines. I would also bet anything that you have done something to merit one of these fines as well, so don't go off on me for my driving habits when you don't know me and you aren't perfect yourself.

Please...why do you keep saying mistakes? You're not going to get a reckless driving ticket in the middle of nowhere for not giving a signal. You probably will get one if you cut someone off in rush hour traffic going 70. There is a difference. One is a mistake and the other is poor judgment. Call it what it is.
 

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