Analysis Week 4 AMA: Saints/Falcons Postgame (Ask Me Anything) (1 Viewer)

[SaintStephen1]

Not taking a FG on the second to last possession was the right call. Not only did it give you a chance to get the lead, when they missed it left the Saints in great field position at the Falcon 42 after a 3 and out. Had they kicked the FG Falcons would have had the ball starting on their 30 with a 3 point rather than their 7 with a 6 point lead. Let’s assume a 3 and out, Falcons probably punt inside the Saints 20, making the last drive WAY more difficult and at best probably getting a tying FG. The run to Penning’s side on 3rd and goal was the questionable decision on that 2nd to last possession. They knew they were going for it on 4th so I understand trying to get closer for the 4th down play.

 

[Elvis]

A lot of it's mentality. Great teams have very good situational focus. Game is on the line, you lock in and take it to 110 on every single snap until the final whistle blows.

The Saints haven't done that. Last week it was Howden, triggering early and trying to cheat and make a play on the ball and creating a cluster-f. This week it was Adebo--completely getting out of his technique and it resulted in a costly P.I.

Some of that might have to do with identity. The defense seems very risk-averse at times, and perhaps by the end of the game players are pressing and trying to make THE PLAY (like an INT. to win the game).

I can tell you right now--playing DB is HARD in 2 minute situations. The offense isn't huddling so you're much more limited in communication, disguising, changing plays. It's really just line up and play ball. It's also when the offense can come out with all of its back-breakers like double moves and mesh concepts and other man-beaters. So you have to be extremely locked-in and disciplined with your eyes, hands, and feet.

It IS NOT the time to try and force a play.

As a follow up to this. Where does that mentality come from? Is it player focused or is it being coached that way?

 

[Plow]

As a follow up to this. Where does that mentality come from? Is it player focused or is it being coached that way?

 

[ndcc]

1. Coach Dan: Your honest assessment on Trevor Penning (pros & cons).

2. Lagniappe: What’s our recipe to beat KC on MNF?

Glad you do these periodically: Thanks.

 

[TCUDan]

As a follow up to this. Where does that mentality come from? Is it player focused or is it being coached that way?

I mean a player has to have that dawg in them--but being in the NFL, if you haven't washed out you generally have to be a pretty heated competitor. So then a lot of it comes down to messaging and emphasis and where you channel that competitive nature as a coach.

For as much as I loathe Greg Williams, he did understand this. He talked all the time about how he wanted his guys to play on the edge and he'd pull them back if they started to go too far. Without getting into all the ins and outs of him specifically--this is kind of the mentality that you want to have as a coach (within the rules, of course), and your players will pick up on that and take it on.

Now, I'm not inside the Saints building, so I can't say what exactly the messaging is internally, but the big problem with the "bend but don't break" philosophy and identity is you're reigning players in, telling them to hold back and "play smart." Again--there is a place for that, and if your offense is producing it's fine. Limit teams to field goals while you score TDs, like the Saints did in the first two games, and then loosen the leash a little once you have a lead.

I want to be clear: I am not saying there is no place for this in the football. There are many ways to win games and what your job is as a coach is to find the best way that fits your players, your makeup, your entire team (offense, defense, and special teams). In 09 the formula was play fast and aggressive on defense and get the ball back to our high-powered offense as much as humanly possible. Get them more possessions. The defense that year was, statistically (yards allowed, points allowed, etc.) near the bottom of the league, but IIRC, they also LED the league in turnovers. That was very complementary to the offense.

The team found its identity--one that worked, wasn't forced--and rode it all the way to the Super Bowl. I'm not saying that it's easy to catch lightning in a bottle like that, but right now, these 4 games have been a tale of 2 different teams.

The first one is a team that bought into an identity and looked unstoppable.

The second one is a team that looks lost and is losing close games because the identity isn't working. I tie a lot of that to game management, but there has to be more redundancy in place--whether that is depth or flexibility of scheme or discipline/accountability for players (so they don't make critical mistakes in critical moments)--so the team can overcome an injury here, a poor play there.

For example: it's hard to replace Taysom Hill. He is key to the offensive identity (being a smash-mouth run-heavy team despite a mediocre offensive line). You can't replace him, so if he isn't in the game, you have to have a plan B. Do we go heavier and try to get a numbers/gap advantage? Do we go lighter and get out of the condensed sets and run the ball from true spread looks? Do we shift to more of a timing offense and move the ball through the short passing game?

These are the answers coaches need to have. And insofar as this ties into identity/mentality: the more confidently the coaches provide answers, the more focused and bought-in players tend to be.

 

[TCUDan]

1. Coach Dan: Your honest assessment on Trevor Penning (pros & cons).

2. Lagniappe: What’s our recipe to beat KC on MNF?

Glad you do these periodically: Thanks.

Penning is better than he was last year, but still pretty bad. He receives a lot of help in pass protection with chips and slides his way and is rarely left on an island (though I have seen him win some unexpected one-on-ones). I think he's getting a lot of help during the week in terms of scouting who will be the rusher across from him so he knows what moves to expect.

Call it "remedial attention" from his coaches. That's what I suspect, anyway--they're going out of their way every week to makes sure he doesn't get horribly exposed.

I think what's more disappointing than his pass protection is his run blocking. He's extremely inconsistent with his leverage and drive and I get tired of seeing his big a$$ getting driven off the ball at the snap with the DL's arms locked out and his hands right on his chest plate.

I wouldn't go so far as saying he's costing us games, but he is a very mediocre OT with the potential to be an all pro--which is what makes him SO DAMN FRUSTRATING.

As for the Chiefs: I need to study some film (I plan to do that tomorrow/Friday), but offensively it really depends on if Taysom Hill can go. If he's healthy I think you go back to the formula of the two first games. If not--you better have answers. I really like the approach this game, coming out in 11 pers, shifting/motioning into empty looks, and generally outflanking the defense's personnel sets (again, this is much easier to do if Taysom is healthy and playing).

Defensively: find a way to generate pressure on 3rd down. If that means you gotta pressure with Alontae Taylor more, then do it (he just needs to keep his hands lower and not draw penalties). Keep Mahomes on schedule and expect some mickey mouse sh*t here and there from Andy Reid.

The Saints have only lost these two games by a combined 5 points. There are no *radical* changes needed to the scheme or personnel. Manage the game more intelligently. Commit to what you do well, with the understanding that sometimes a player goes down or an opponent gives you a new look and you gotta adjust and maybe set fire to the gameplan. Whatever it takes to close out a game and win.

**My biggest criticism of DA isn't scheme or play-calling or his demeanor on the sideline. It's his game management. The difference between an 8 or 9-win team and a 12 or 13-win team is a handful of points and opportunities. He needs to prove that he won't perpetually squander those.

 

[TCUDan]

Great pooint you make, "Whether or not that particular aspect becomes part of Shaheed's game is somewhat irrelevant--"
Can he be schemed where we arent throwing him contested balls? (considering were throwing at 48%, thats quite a few snaps that we wish we had back) Could it be that Klint is still learning Shaheed? or could Shaheed improve in that aspect? To me, It really seems we're trying to force a round peg at this point. (for the record i love Shaheed and we're beyond lucky to have him considering he's an UDFA etc)

That's not something you can really scheme for, because what you're essentially saying is "can the QB not trust his WR in certain, split-second situations." You don't really scheme for 50/50 balls. They just happen at times, and you have your best matchup there so you place the ball where your receiver has the best chance to make a play on it.

In terms of "can a player improve at it?" The answer is 100% yes they can. My EDD (every day drills) involve a 10-15 minute progression with all the skill players just after prepractice and warmup (so first drill of practice). It's called "Snatch" and we first work a catch progression from different angles--turning our body back to the ball to high point, then back shoulder, then high and low 1-ball (a bullet pass). From there we go to 50/50 where the DB begins in phase (hip to hip) with the WR and the QB throws up a 2 or 3 ball (a touch pass or a lob) and the WR and DB have to compete for it.

We do this every day not just to train the muscle memory and eye discipline it takes to win a 50/50 ball all the way through, but to train the mentality that whether I'm a DB or a WR... if the ball is in the air, IT'S MINE!

Olave is a prime example of someone who improved his contested catch game. I really don't think Shaheed has a major issue with this (again, small sample size, but he's pretty competitive for the ball IMO).

That said, there is ALWAYS room for improvement.

 

[Belfast Saint]

Penning is better than he was last year, but still pretty bad. He receives a lot of help in pass protection with chips and slides his way and is rarely left on an island (though I have seen him win some unexpected one-on-ones). I think he's getting a lot of help during the week in terms of scouting who will be the rusher across from him so he knows what moves to expect.

Call it "remedial attention" from his coaches. That's what I suspect, anyway--they're going out of their way every week to makes sure he doesn't get horribly exposed.

I think what's more disappointing than his pass protection is his run blocking. He's extremely inconsistent with his leverage and drive and I get tired of seeing his big a$$ getting driven off the ball at the snap with the DL's arms locked out and his hands right on his chest plate.

I wouldn't go so far as saying he's costing us games, but he is a very mediocre OT with the potential to be an all pro--which is what makes him SO DAMN FRUSTRATING.

I don't disagree with you Dan, he needs to improve technique and be more consistent with it. He's shown pretty decent improvement in pass pro though obviously can continue to improve. One hopes that focus and development on his pass pro eventually spills across to his run blocking. What is at least promising is that he can and does get it right some of the time so it's not a question of whether it is possible for him to do it. He just needs to do the good stuff more, and the bad stuff less.

I understand the frustration but here's my view 1) he's clearly a slow developing player and as long as he's progressing then you have to live with that pace to an extent 2) with any developing player you're going to get ups and downs, highs and lows, inconsistency and that's just a part of it and 3) before the season started we would have been ecstatic with mediocre play at RT so count your blessings a little bit!

 

[TCUDan]

I don't disagree with you Dan, he needs to improve technique and be more consistent with it. He's shown pretty decent improvement in pass pro though obviously can continue to improve. One hopes that focus and development on his pass pro eventually spills across to his run blocking. What is at least promising is that he can and does get it right some of the time so it's not a question of whether it is possible for him to do it. He just needs to do the good stuff more, and the bad stuff less.

I understand the frustration but here's my view 1) he's clearly a slow developing player and as long as he's progressing then you have to live with that pace to an extent 2) with any developing player you're going to get ups and downs, highs and lows, inconsistency and that's just a part of it and 3) before the season started we would have been ecstatic with mediocre play at RT so count your blessings a little bit!

You're right, J, and despite my frustration I do share your perspective. Even as recent as the first preseason game (after that performance) I wouldn't have expected him to be even this serviceable. As long as he continues to improve throughout the season I think we'll be alright.

 

[BensonJr]

Spectacular comments as usual. Thoughts on trading for Davante Adams assuming we can work something out on his salary? He turns 32 in December.

 

[DSnfla]

I don't disagree with you Dan, he needs to improve technique and be more consistent with it. He's shown pretty decent improvement in pass pro though obviously can continue to improve. One hopes that focus and development on his pass pro eventually spills across to his run blocking. What is at least promising is that he can and does get it right some of the time so it's not a question of whether it is possible for him to do it. He just needs to do the good stuff more, and the bad stuff less.

I understand the frustration but here's my view 1) he's clearly a slow developing player and as long as he's progressing then you have to live with that pace to an extent 2) with any developing player you're going to get ups and downs, highs and lows, inconsistency and that's just a part of it and 3) before the season started we would have been ecstatic with mediocre play at RT so count your blessings a little bit!

Couldn't agree more. To me because he missed almost all of his rookie season and the following offseason I look at Penning as kind of a redshirt freshman. He has gotten better almost every game, maybe not leaps and bounds but bit by bit. And he will show flashes of what he can be

 

[TCUDan]

Spectacular comments as usual. Thoughts on trading for Davante Adams assuming we can work something out on his salary? He turns 32 in December.

Depending on the price I think it would be a great move. It's a quick way to add another dimension to the offense, as Adams brings a more physical presence than what the Saints currently have at WR--not to mention his familiarity with Derek Carr.

The main argument against him would be that the way this offense is run, there really aren't enough balls to go around for a 3rd premium WR (whether it's Adams or Shaheed that's considered that "3rd" guy is really irrelevant). But I'm a big believer (and I'm sure Kubiak is, too, along w any coach worth his salt) that you can always adapt your scheme to your personnel.

Adams would bring some juice to the offense. But the price has to be right.

 

[sportsaint]

Depending on the price I think it would be a great move. It's a quick way to add another dimension to the offense, as Adams brings a more physical presence than what the Saints currently have at WR--not to mention his familiarity with Derek Carr.

The main argument against him would be that the way this offense is run, there really aren't enough balls to go around for a 3rd premium WR (whether it's Adams or Shaheed that's considered that "3rd" guy is really irrelevant). But I'm a big believer (and I'm sure Kubiak is, too, along w any coach worth his salt) that you can always adapt your scheme to your personnel.

Adams would bring some juice to the offense. But the price has to be right.

Seems like Shaheed would get less touches and Adam’s gets those Mike Thomas touches?

 

[TCUDan]

Seems like Shaheed would get less touches and Adam’s gets those Mike Thomas touches?

Really depends on how/if his addition affects the scheme or philosophy. What I'd like is for him to get some Kamara touches with that run/pass ratio sliding a little toward pass. Not bc I don't want the ball in Kamara's hands, but because I want him to make it through the season and for his role to be a bit more targeted rather than pure workhorse.

Or maybe we shift a little more toward lighter personnel looks so he's eating into some Taysom Hill snaps. Again, not that I don't want Hill on the field, but I'd like for him to make it through the season.

All that to say it's really about how his addition would be folded into the team and the existing system. These things aren't always a 1 to 1 (WR to WR) in terms snaps and touches.

 

[td2w]

Such a horrible outcome for this game - TD from a punt and from a batted pass, I think it was quite unlucky.

Last play of the game, before the clowns kicked - about 10(?) seconds on the clock, 3rd down.
Cousins throws a pass 10-15 yards down field - why not allow the catch and try to tackle in-bounds? No chance they can spike in time or bring the kicker