Why did Spagnuolo stink as Saints' DC? (merged) (1 Viewer)

[Cincy Saint]

Long article on The Athletic today about how Spagnuolo improved the Chiefs defense and how he's been a great DC everywhere he went. Of course, it fails to mention Spags' terrible stint as Saints' DC. Why did Spagnuolo fail in New Orleans?

Here's a comment from a reader on The Athletic (maybe a SR.com member?)

Spagnuolo was historically awful in his one season as the Saints DC (2012). Only team in the history of the league to give up 7,000 yards in a season. The offense was top-3, with Brees, J. Graham, Sproles, Ingram, and an excellent O-line. But every game was a shootout, the kind of football that is frustrating to watch - win or lose. The only team they held under 300 yds was the Falcons (283), and they lost because of five turnovers.

That defense had decent, though aging, talent with Jon Vilma, Will Smith, Roman Harper, and Jabari Greer (all over 30) plus a handful of good younger players (Cam Jordan, Malcom Jenkins, Akiem Hicks). But they couldn't get off the field. Third and long; no problem - TE quick slant was an automatic 8 yds. Must have seen it 40 times that season. Coaches never found a way to scheme around a clear weakness, and every opponent exploited it. By the end of the season, the defense just gave up, yielding 530 yds to Carolina in the final game to set the record. Poor performance, yes, but it's also a sign of poor coaching when you can't motivate a veteran team to avoid being the worst ever.

It's great that the Chiefs are playing good defense this season, and I wish them the best. But if you are going to give Spagnuolo credit for that, then you've got to give him blame for coaching the worst defense in history. Until somebody breaks that record, he owns it.

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[scott88]

because the talent outside of Cam Jordan was sh**

 

[football]

Up till 2017 the defense in the Brees era was the worst. Can't stand watching teams racking up tons of yards against us. Players on that defense lacks any leadership and no one was accountable. Everyone was riding on the coattails of the offense and Brees

 

[2009ring]

Spagnuolo at the time tried to use "his" scheme with our players and it wasn't effective. Now he tailors the defenses more around the talent of the team instead of what he prefers to run.

 

[Nolan]

1) We didn't have nearly as much talent as we have recently.
2) He didn't scheme around the talent that WAS there (ie Patrick Robinson was awesome in 2011 playing bump and run man coverage. He was historically bad in Spags zone scheme in 2012)
3) We didn't have a head coach.

 

[Trey W.]

I’ve wondered that exact same thing. Spags had some talented D-linemen with the Giants before coming to NO.. It’s no secret Spags places heavy responsibility on his D-line to allow other positions to excel.

We had a young Cam Jordan, an old Will Smith, Sedrick Ellis, Akiem Hicks, and Broderick Bunkley as our D-line. At LB we had Vilma, Curtis Lofton and Galette. At DB we had Greer, Harper, Jenkins, and Patrick Robinson.

I don’t know what the disconnect was between Coach and players but they gave up at the time the most yards ever 7,024. Reading some of the articles, it appears the change from Greg Williams who allowed his players to have input and do certain things, to Spags who was my way or the highway type really pissed off a lot of players.

 

[Cincy Saint]

I don’t know what the disconnect was between Coach and players but they gave up at the time the most yards ever 7,024. Reading some of the articles, it appears the change from Greg Williams who allowed his players to have input and do certain things, to Spags who was my way or the highway type really P'Oed off a lot of players.

I find this so interesting becuase the article specifically mentions that the Chiefs players have input into the defensive scheme. Maybe Spags learned from his mistakes.

FROM THE ARTICLE: The reason the Chiefs defense could make so many alterations at halftime, Spagnuolo said, was because his players can help solve schematic problems alongside him.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

1) We didn't have nearly as much talent as we have recently.
2) He didn't scheme around the talent that WAS there (ie Patrick Robinson was awesome in 2011 playing bump and run man coverage. He was historically bad in Spags zone scheme in 2012)
3) We didn't have a head coach.

He was also forced to keep Sean's boy on his staff and not bring any of his own people in. Not only was his scheme too complex for the players, it was also too complex for the likes of Johnson, Vitt, and the like.

I will always say he was set up to fail.

 

[Doug B]

Back in 2012 ... they used to say that Spagnuolo's scheme needed an elite defensive line so his defenses could get consistent pressure on the quarterback with only four rushers. I'm not sure they say that anymore.

 

[Tapxe]

The only team they held under 300 yds was the Falcons (283)

That's a big coincidence and funny too...

 

[Nick Name]

2012 was a total show. CSP was suspended, no draft picks… it was destined for failure. Nobody was going to do well imo.

 

[SaintsMan209]

Doger Baddell force the Saints to hire Spags to take over for Sean. But Mr. Benson didn't go along with the plan, neither did Mickey. Therefore, Mr. Payton fired Mr. Steve.

 

[BreesusSaves]

He was also forced to keep Sean's boy on his staff and not bring any of his own people in. Not only was his scheme too complex for the players, it was also too complex for the likes of Johnson, Vitt, and the like.

I will always say he was set up to fail.

I mean it is pretty obvious after six straight AFC Championships for the Chiefs that Spags was NOT the problem. The man has three rings as a defensive coordinator, two of which came after his Giants career, so clearly he's been able to field a "just enough" defense just enough times to help win three Super Bowls.

 

[Alan12]

He was also forced to keep Sean's boy on his staff and not bring any of his own people in. Not only was his scheme too complex for the players, it was also too complex for the likes of Johnson, Vitt, and the like.

I will always say he was set up to fail.

He was indeed saddled with the sandbags known as Vitt and Bill Johnson, but Spagnuolo did bring in Ken Flajole as the secondary coach with him (Flajole was the DC during Spagnuolo’s HC tenure in St. Louis and his current OLB’s coach in Kansas City) so he did have one of his guys to help teach his difficult scheme.

As a result, the 2012 Saints defense was ranked at the bottom in nearly every passing category and Flajole’s secondary was a large reason for that.

As others have noted, including Chiefs players themselves, that they have input into the defense based on their strengths and weaknesses; have you seen ANY Saints player on that 2012 team say anything like that regarding Spags’ defense? Spagnuolo just refused to adjust his system to the players and ended up being the scapegoat as a result.

Ryan took the same nucleus of players Spags had and turned them into a top-5 unit with only the additions of Lewis, Vaccaro, and Parys Haralson. Lewis likely being the key acquisition but it levels out considering Greer missed half the season after breaking his leg and had Corey White starting at the other CB position. While Spagnuolo had Hicks and Galette riding the bench in 2012 playing very limited snaps, they tripled their sack total the following year in Ryan’s defense. If Ryan of all coaches could see their potential, how didn’t Spags?

If he was set up to fail that year, it was because Payton wasn’t allowed to be in the building more than the just players he inherited, his scheme, or anything else.

 

[TenTwo]

It’s simple. We don’t do great with coordinators from Boston