Why did Spagnuolo stink as Saints' DC? (merged) (3 Viewers)

[Trey W.]

I find this so interesting becuase the article specifically mentions that the Chiefs players have input into the defensive scheme. Maybe Spags learned from his mistakes.

That was 11 years ago so maybe he learned from his mistakes made with us. Guess we'd have to see if any of the Giants players said the same things as ours or not.

 

[madsaint1967]

He might be good now but he was terrible with us. When I look at the players on that defense, no way we should have been that bad.

 

[Archie's Boyz]

I just think CSP did not mix well with him, and Spags' defense scheme did not fit. I am not taking anything away from Spags' past or current accomplishments. His defense in the AFC Championship against the Raves was really phenomenal. It just did not work here with CSP.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

I just think CSP did not mix well with him, and Spags' defense scheme did not fit. I am not taking anything away from Spags' past or current accomplishments. His defense in the AFC Championship against the Raves was really phenomenal. It just did not work here with CSP.

What mix? Payton was suspended that year.

 

[blackadder]

Long article on The Athletic today about how Spagnuolo improved the Chiefs defense and how he's been a great DC everywhere he went. Of course, it fails to mention Spags' terrible stint as Saints' DC. Why did Spagnuolo fail in New Orleans?

Here's a comment from a reader on The Athletic (maybe a SR.com member?)


LINK TO THE STORY (Archive, no paywall)

Bad talent and worse staff and they probably pointed fingers and undermined him.

Payton chose to keep his incompetent crony staff and his defenses got worse. Series of near all time worst seasons. The main reason he couldn’t get another ring. His all time awful defenses nullified his HoF QB.

Spagnoulo has gotten it done everywhere else as a DC.. He’s been especially and consistently good in the playoffs and big games. Safe to say it was us, not him. Payton by contrast put in some of his worst coaching jobs in the playoffs. All downhill after Ambush…

History might have been different had he kept Spags and cleaned house of his crony dead weight sooner.

 

[blackadder]

I just think CSP did not mix well with him, and Spags' defense scheme did not fit. I am not taking anything away from Spags' past or current accomplishments. His defense in the AFC Championship against the Raves was really phenomenal. It just did not work here with CSP.

CSP couldn’t mix well with a lot of people. Couldn’t tolerate another strong cia h in the building it seems.

A bit dysfunctional and probably part of why that side of the ball stayed dysfunctional so long while he meddled in it.

 

[RiverRat]

wasn’t he only here for the suspension year? I dont think him and SP ever coached together. Or am I remembering that wrong? I feel like SP fired him as soon as he returned.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

because the talent outside of Cam Jordan was sh**

We fielded the #4 defense (both yards and scoring) the very next year

Let's see if we can figure out personnel changes
Also note we switched from the 4-3 to the 3-4
Im listing only starters, although Galette and Hicks were on the roster in 2012

     2012                      2013
DT   Buntley/Ellis             Buntley(NT)
DE   Jordan/Smith              Jordan/Hicks
ILB  Lofton (MLB)              Lofton/Hawthorne
OLB  Vilma/Shanley/Hawthorne   Galette/Harlson
CB   Robinson/Greer            Lewis/Greer,White
S    Harper/Jenkins           Vaccaro/Jenkins

I don't think the 2012 roster was devoid of talent. The problem was there had some very obvious "weak links" which could be exploited, combined with a poor scheme and guys not being in the right spots. If I remember right Sedrick Ellis was a major one. Roman Harper had also lost a step, and I remember Vaccaro making an immediate impact. You can add Keenan Lewis replacing Patrick Robinson to that list.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

We fielded the #4 defense (both yards and scoring) the very next year

Let's see if we can figure out personnel changes
Also note we switched from the 4-3 to the 3-4
Im listing only starters, although Galette and Hicks were on the roster in 2012

     2012                      2013
DT   Buntley/Ellis             Buntley(NT)
DE   Jordan/Smith              Jordan/Hicks
ILB  Lofton (MLB)              Lofton/Hawthorne
OLB  Vilma/Shanley/Hawthorne   Galette/Harlson
CB   Robinson/Greer            Lewis/Greer,White
S    Harper/Jenkins           Vaccaro/Jenkins

I don't think the 2012 roster was devoid of talent. The problem was there had some very obvious "weak links" which could be exploited, combined with a poor scheme and guys not being in the right spots. If I remember right Sedrick Ellis was a major one. Roman Harper had also lost a step, and I remember Vaccaro making an immediate impact. You can add Keenan Lewis replacing Patrick Robinson to that list.

That just reminded me that Vaccaro got injured and may have returned at the end of that season. I think a wrist injury or something. I could be wrong.

 

[yamsi]

In retrospect it really was dire when Rob Ryan was / felt like an improvement.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

In retrospect it really was dire when Rob Ryan was / felt like an improvement.

Man, I still remember reading about how the Honey Badger was on the same plane as Rob. This was before he got drafted. I think the speculation was that everyone was hoping we would draft him and somehow it was a sign. Those were the days.

 

[Archie's Boyz]

What mix? Payton was suspended that year.

When CSP returned from suspension, he fired Spags if you recall. Obviously, he and Spags did not agree on how the defense was being run or what was needed.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

When CSP returned from suspension, he fired Spags if you recall. Obviously, he and Spags did not agree on how the defense was being run or what was needed.

The rumor at the time was that Spags threw the players under the bus, so Payton sided with his players and fired Spags. But the point is that Payton wasn't around during his one year, so there was no mix that went bad or whatever.

 

[mr.t]

Long article on The Athletic today about how Spagnuolo improved the Chiefs defense and how he's been a great DC everywhere he went. Of course, it fails to mention Spags' terrible stint as Saints' DC. Why did Spagnuolo fail in New Orleans?

Here's a comment from a reader on The Athletic (maybe a SR.com member?)


LINK TO THE STORY (Archive, no paywall)

Mike Detillier said it wasn't a fit. For what it's worth.

 

[wwepatriot]

He was indeed saddled with the sandbags known as Vitt and Bill Johnson, but Spagnuolo did bring in Ken Flajole as the secondary coach with him (Flajole was the DC during Spagnuolo’s HC tenure in St. Louis and his current OLB’s coach in Kansas City) so he did have one of his guys to help teach his difficult scheme.

As a result, the 2012 Saints defense was ranked at the bottom in nearly every passing category and Flajole’s secondary was a large reason for that.

As others have noted, including Chiefs players themselves, that they have input into the defense based on their strengths and weaknesses; have you seen ANY Saints player on that 2012 team say anything like that regarding Spags’ defense? Spagnuolo just refused to adjust his system to the players and ended up being the scapegoat as a result.

Ryan took the same nucleus of players Spags had and turned them into a top-5 unit with only the additions of Lewis, Vaccaro, and Parys Haralson. Lewis likely being the key acquisition but it levels out considering Greer missed half the season after breaking his leg and had Corey White starting at the other CB position. While Spagnuolo had Hicks and Galette riding the bench in 2012 playing very limited snaps, they tripled their sack total the following year in Ryan’s defense. If Ryan of all coaches could see their potential, how didn’t Spags?

If he was set up to fail that year, it was because Payton wasn’t allowed to be in the building more than the just players he inherited, his scheme, or anything else.

IMHO Spags is a crap D-Coordinator even with the Chiefs. Its masked by the fact theirs not many good offensive teams in the AFC, but to Spags credit, the Defense has a habit of standing up against good offenses at certain points through the year or playoffs. Theirs also a huge degree of luck in Spags defenses where their is a couple star players that carries those defenses much how Tom Brady was carrying offenses. Most everything in NY was ran through Tom Couglin regardless Spags there or not, similar to how everything runs through Andy Reid regardless if Spags is there or not, its also now Eric Binenemy hasnt gotten a HC job, his departure from KC changed nothing.