Why did Spagnuolo stink as Saints' DC? (merged) (2 Viewers)

[Saintslfc13]

No HC that season.

That’s what I came to say. He had one season with a (as far as I am aware) unprecedented situation where the Head Coach was not there. The talent was also aging/aged on the defense if I remember correctly.

 

[HogsNSaints]

Was this the year of all the suspensions?

 

[Alan12]

Perhaps, but that same group performed very well under Rob Ryan the next season.

This.

Rob Ryan turned that same group Spagnuolo floundered with into a top-5 defense THE VERY NEXT YEAR. No excuse regarding the roster.

Spagnuolo couldn't get sacks from anyone other than Jordan or an aging Will Smith while Ryan came in and squeezed 12.0 sacks out of Galette, who was wasting away on the sidelines in 2012. Same with Hicks.

 

[Saint Jack]

That’s what I came to say. He had one season with a (as far as I am aware) unprecedented situation where the Head Coach was not there. The talent was also aging/aged on the defense if I remember correctly.

And from my memory, that entire 12-16 era was a transition period to 17-20.

 

[EvilMike]

The organization is awful. Note how many players regress or are busts with the Saints, then they let players like Hendrickson and Baun go and they ball out with other teams.

They had 4 years to draft Brees replacement. They could've had Lamar but blew #1s on Davenport.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Perhaps, but that same group performed very well under Rob Ryan the next season.

This.

Rob Ryan turned that same group Spagnuolo floundered with into a top-5 defense THE VERY NEXT YEAR. No excuse regarding the roster.

Spagnuolo couldn't get sacks from anyone other than Jordan or an aging Will Smith while Ryan came in and squeezed 12.0 sacks out of Galette, who was wasting away on the sidelines in 2012. Same with Hicks.

And then 2014, 2015, and 2016 happened.

Ryan's the originator of the 4-2-5 and it caught teams with their pants down, then we saw over the next three years all the things Spags pointed out with the lack of talent on the defense and in the defensive coaching staff were true.

 

[saintmike23]

Quarterbacks were better back then. The best QB is on his team so he doesn’t go against him in big games.

These QBs don’t make route audibles at the line.

Peyton, TB12, Brees would eat this pitiful scheme up.

Even Eli would cook vs this defense.

 

[Alan12]

And then 2014, 2015, and 2016 Sean Payton happened.

Ryan's the originator of the 4-2-5 and it caught teams with their pants down, then we saw over the next three years all the things Spags pointed out with the lack of talent on the defense and in the defensive coaching staff were true.

Fixed that for you. 2014 and 2015 would've been fine had Payton not stuck his nose where it didn't belong.

But LMAO, Rob Ryan did not create the nickel defense or any variation of it.

 

[los226]

This.

Rob Ryan turned that same group Spagnuolo floundered with into a top-5 defense THE VERY NEXT YEAR. No excuse regarding the roster.

Spagnuolo couldn't get sacks from anyone other than Jordan or an aging Will Smith while Ryan came in and squeezed 12.0 sacks out of Galette, who was wasting away on the sidelines in 2012. Same with Hicks.

The team had a lot of players that were better suited for a 3-4 scheme and that’s what Rob Ryan’s scheme called for when he came over. It wasn’t until 2014 that Payton had Rob Ryan switch back to a 4-3 and replaced the safeties to try to emulate the Legion of Boom scheme that everything went to hell again.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Fixed that for you. 2014 and 2015 would've been fine had Payton not stuck his nose where it didn't belong.

But LMAO, Rob Ryan did not create the nickel defense or any variation of it.

I'm not saying he invented nickel as a defense, simply he was the first to employ it as a base defense. Team's obviously have film of nickel packages used as situational defenses but not of an actual base where on first down its a 4-2, second down is a 4-2, and third down is a 4-2. It was a different look that teams didn't have film on that allowed a lot of unique looks and countered the popular offensive trend of three wide receivers being the new base.

Payton then stuck his nose in to meddle, however none of it changed the fact the Saints in 2012 through 2016 had an aging defense lacking talent with poor position coaches. When the defensive coaching staff overhaul happened in 2017, the whole defense turned around. Talented players were being developed by good position coaches leading to a very impressive run and what should have been a second Super Bowl appearance and possible Lombardi #2.

 

[dvdman]

Cause he didn't have a Chris Jones.

 

[Alan12]

The team had a lot of players that were better suited for a 3-4 scheme and that’s what Rob Ryan’s scheme called for when he came over. It wasn’t until 2014 that Payton had Rob Ryan switch back to a 4-3 and replaced the safeties to try to emulate the Legion of Boom scheme that everything went to hell again.

So we're in agreement. Nice.

I'm not saying he invented nickel as a defense, simply he was the first to employ it as a base defense. Team's obviously have film of nickel packages used as situational defenses but not of an actual base where on first down its a 4-2, second down is a 4-2, and third down is a 4-2. It was a different look that teams didn't have film on that allowed a lot of unique looks and countered the popular offensive trend of three wide receivers being the new base.

Payton then stuck his nose in to meddle, however none of it changed the fact the Saints in 2012 through 2016 had an aging defense lacking talent with poor position coaches. When the defensive coaching staff overhaul happened in 2017, the whole defense turned around. Talented players were being developed by good position coaches leading to a very impressive run and what should have been a second Super Bowl appearance and possible Lombardi #2.

Gary Patterson was running a base 4-2-5 at the University of New Mexico in 1996. Ryan didn't "innovate" it.

As for the position coaches, you'll get no argument from me. Spagnuolo and Ryan were both saddled with Payton's clowns of Vitt and Johnson. However Spags was at least allowed to bring his own secondary coach in Ken Flajole who followed him from St. Louis and then followed him to Kansas City later on while Ryan was shackled to Wesley McGriff for 2.5 seasons on top of having to deal with the two aforementioned rejects.

All I'm saying is Ryan did far more than Spagnuolo did with even less to work with. If the personnel in 2012 was THAT bad, Ryan should've had worse results than Spagnuolo did, but he didn't. Then Payton stuck his nose and the rest is history.

 

[DerrickB]

Lack of Elite talent

 

[Saintslfc13]

And from my memory, that entire 12-16 era was a transition period to 17-20.

I have the same memory. We were amazing in 2011 and if not for blown coverage on Vernon Davis

Quarterbacks were better back then. The best QB is on his team so he doesn’t go against him in big games.

These QBs don’t make route audibles at the line.

Peyton, TB12, Brees would eat this pitiful scheme up.

Even Eli would cook vs this defense.

They don't know and they never will

 

[Lazarus]

He has to have the exact perfect players to run his system. Throw him in anywhere else and he’s awful.

This, He cant adapt to what he has he has to have his system guys