You know our country is in trouble… (2 Viewers)

[Geldo]

There was a news story in 2007 about a woman who heard a couple fighting in the middle of the night.

She ran down the stairs of her apartment complex to see what was happening and the man chopped her arms off with a machete.

I think about her approximately once a month. I wonder if she gets hung up on that moment when she was still safe in her bed, before she went downstairs.

And I wonder how on earth I'd be able to stop myself from doing the same thing.

I cannot imagine an instance where someone is being hurt and I don't help.

I'm not watching this video, but I bet there was a chance for a smaller person to jump on his back and gouge his eyes.

That will be my go-to move in a crisis. Don't be weirded out by the squishiness of the eyes. Just squeeze until they stop what they're doing.

I have a plan of action for almost every unfortunate scenario. That's what this life has done to me.

It's always a terrible dilemma isn't it, and I'm sure many heroic people have done amazing things to save strangers but I'm not sure I'd relish another encounter like the one I had. About 15 years ago I confronted a drug addict who was going crazy in the street and had pushed my daughter over and punched her boyfriend. I went to help and was horrified by this drugged up machine punching cars with all his might and not feeling a thing. I had to talk him down for 25 mins before the Police arrived., during which time he threatened to cut my throat etc....
I used to box a bit in the 80s and thought I could handle a young man...but this guy had veins popping out of his head and eyeballs glazed over. He was like the Terminator. I could probably have shot him and not done much to stop him.

A friend of mine stepped in to help a woman who was being slapped and manhandled in a shopping centre. The guy then punched him in the face and the woman took off her shoe and started battering my friend from behind....there are crazy people out there it's best not to get involved with.

 

[Geldo]

Male role in society:
Husband/father
Farmer
Soldier
Scribe
Guard
Bard
Bean counter
Priest
Sanitation worker
Ruler
Blacksmith
Acrobat
Cobbler
Librarian
Shepherd
Jester
Tanner
Fisher
Merchant
1000s more

I would like to add my own personal roles...
Divorced pension donator
Psychological punchbag
Taxi driver
Blame absorber
broken embittered romantic

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I would like to add my own personal roles...
Divorced pension donator
Psychological punchbag
Taxi driver
Blame absorber
broken embittered romantic

I sense a theme

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Ok, what historically was the male role in society/family? Just the heavy lifter and opener of pickle jars?

I’m saying that sometimes it was just about opening pickle jars, yeah. But sure, a lot of the time their role certainly was as the provider/protector.

A lot of other times, it was as an abuser. Many other times men have mistreated women while, at the same time, still pretending to be the protectors & providers.

I wasn’t saying there aren’t/have never been good men, but I would push back on treating women well being how they have always acted.

 

[Semper]

Round Lake Beach police: Jason Karels charged with murder after 3 children found dead in home on E. Camden Lane | abc7chicago.com

Round Lake Beach police said Tuesday that Jason Karels has been charged in the deaths of his three children inside a home on E. Camden Lane.

abc7chicago.com

I hope every possible harm can be done to this man. What kind of animal harms a child, much less his own child.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I’m saying that sometimes it was just about opening pickle jars, yeah. But sure, a lot of the time their role certainly was as the provider/protector.

A lot of other times, it was as an abuser. Many other times men have mistreated women while, at the same time, still pretending to be the protectors & providers.

I wasn’t saying there aren’t/have never been good men, but I would push back on treating women well being how they have always acted.

And then of course the hidden question is ‘who are the men protecting the women from’?

 

[Farb]

Male role in society:
Husband/father
Farmer
Soldier
Scribe
Guard
Bard
Bean counter
Priest
Sanitation worker
Ruler
Blacksmith
Acrobat
Cobbler
Librarian
Shepherd
Jester
Tanner
Fisher
Merchant
1000s more

The first 2 listed is what we are after on this discussion.

 

[Farb]

You said
One way, men have always acted is by protecting women
Not all men not always - roles have always been fluid and reactive
You implied that the ‘purpose’ of #toxicmasculinity was to keep men from being protectors (again not all men not always)
I corrected to say that the reason for #toxicmasculinity was to stop one of the ancillary benefits of masculinity- I was asking you to consider the TOXIC part of the hashtag
The TOXIC part is where you get the abusive, incel, r*pist, ***hole part
Would you not agree that those things are TOXIC?

You bet I would consider a rapist/incel part as the ahole part. But not all males are those just like not all males are men.

No, not every single male. That much has been proven on this thread. Men, however it is absolutely true. As a father and husband, that priority #1.
It would be naïve to think that all males fit into that. Just like all males are not going to marry or have children. But to dismiss the traditional male roles in society as fluid. There is a reason that men tend and should put 'women and children first' when it comes to safety.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

The first 2 listed is what we are after on this discussion.

No, we’re after a comprehensive understanding- not cherry picking to try to salvage a bad take

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

You bet I would consider a rapist/incel part as the ahole part. But not all males are those just like not all males are men.

No, not every single male. That much has been proven on this thread. Men, however it is absolutely true. As a father and husband, that priority #1.
It would be naïve to think that all males fit into that. Just like all males are not going to marry or have children. But to dismiss the traditional male roles in society as fluid. There is a reason that men tend and should put 'women and children first' when it comes to safety.

You are drifting further and further away from your broadside against #toxicmasculinity

 

[Farb]

And then of course the hidden question is ‘who are the men protecting the women from’?

Good question. I would say evil. What would be your guess?

 

[Farb]

You are drifting further and further away from your broadside against #toxicmasculinity

Give me time, I will get there!

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I think this is being over complicated. The strong should protect the weak. Adding sex/gender to it needlessly complicates it... if you can do something to help another person, you should.

 

[Farb]

No, we’re after a comprehensive understanding- not cherry picking to try to salvage a bad take

We are discussing men protecting women when they see danger to that woman. Do you not think the biological role or father and husband that is hardwired in men as a whole is not part of that equation? I would hardly call that cherry picking when most of the other 'roles' you listed are just a byproduct of those 2 roles for the most part.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

But to the original post, as I think has been noted before, the bystander effect has been studied before... the most famous story being the murder of Kitty Genovese in 1964, where 38 bystanders did nothing as she was murdered.

It's really weird, but sometimes the more people around the less likely it is that someone will act, the tendency is to assume someone else will surely do it, and the longer no on does something the harder it becomes to actually do something.