N/S Zack Baun: Top Graded LB / DPOTW [Why Baun Isn’t a Saint Thread] (108 Viewers)

[TribuneUK]

Anzalone
CJGJ

Also both starters here before they left. Are we reading a different question, maybe?

Besides T-Rex, Baun, and Elliss, name me one player the Saints developed and left and became starters elsewhere.

They became starters here, not elsewhere. Otherwise all we're doing is listing starters lost to free agency, which is literally how it works for the entire league.

 

[bobad]

Very true. Just a shame how things worked out. Saints have been a good "farm team" for other teams

Yes, and elsewhere, we better check out BOTH of our young QBs well before we go spending a No.1 on a QB next year.

We have almost enough good players around the league that got away to make a team, and that's frustrating.

 

[dtc]

Should have replaced DD with Baun, we didn’t is another example of how we got old and Expy.

Nonsense. Baun isn't close to as good as DD now or ever.

 

[2009ring]

Also both starters here before they left. Are we reading a different question, maybe?

IDK I just looked at the 2019 depth chart and neither was listed as a starter.

2019 New Orleans Saints Roster & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2019 New Orleans Saints Roster, Players , Starters and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[TribuneUK]

IDK I just looked at the 2019 depth chart and neither was listed as a starter.

2019 New Orleans Saints Roster & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2019 New Orleans Saints Roster, Players , Starters and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Published depth charts are largely a work of fiction. Both were starters during their time here, unless you want to ignore the evidence of them being there on the field with the starters.

And since you're quoting pro football reference, you'll appreciate the same site states these two players started 51 games as Saints...

 

[livefromDC]

It doesn't matter. No one's actually reading the thread, they're just rushing to post the same incorrect observations/accusations.

There's observations/speculation and then there's the truth. The revisionist history on this thread is ridiculous.

From the article below:
“Zack’s probably best, we felt like, as an outside backer and an on-the-ball backer,” Allen said. “He’s got some rush ability.”
Allen didn’t rule out the idea that Baun could still play inside as a linebacker, but it was clear the Saints had come to the conclusion that he was more likely to have success as a pass rusher.

Here's a DIRECT QUOTE from Allen himself refuting what people in this thread are saying HE believed! LOL! He didn't see him as a MLB!

Eagles not using Zack Baun in the position where his former coach thought he was best

The free-agent addition from the New Orleans Saints ran with the first-team defense during practice Wednesday at the NovaCare Complex.

www.nj.com

This article is from May. Let's be clear. THIS is how Allen saw Baun. Special teams, OLB, pass rusher. He was never seriously considered by Allen as a MLB. As a backup LBer, he backed up MULTIPLE LB POSITIONS in case of injury. Just like Jackson now and other LBs before him. But he was used almost solely as an OLB, then at the end pass rusher. Trying to reframe this when so much evidence to the contrary exists is just silly.


He missed it. He played Baun out of position and others. Now he's gone. Trying to defend this is just...weird. The truth is obvious, let it go.

 

[meily]

It was a horrible decision to let him leave via FA...
More than the injury bug biting DD just can't run like he use too...

This is why you let aging Vets walk and play for some one else the last couple of years of their careers...

Former Saints draft pick spreading his wings with the Eagles

Zack Baun is spreading his wings with the Eagles. It’s hard to call the NFC Defensive Player of the Week a draft bust when the Saints didn’t know how to use him:

saintswire.usatoday.com

DA had no vision for his skillset only saw his measurables and misdiagnosed him as a traditional linebacker.

 

[TribuneUK]

There's observations/speculation and then there's the truth. The revisionist history on this thread is ridiculous.

From the article below:
“Zack’s probably best, we felt like, as an outside backer and an on-the-ball backer,” Allen said. “He’s got some rush ability.”
Allen didn’t rule out the idea that Baun could still play inside as a linebacker, but it was clear the Saints had come to the conclusion that he was more likely to have success as a pass rusher.

Here's a DIRECT QUOTE from Allen himself refuting what people in this thread are saying HE believed! LOL! He didn't see him as a MLB!

Eagles not using Zack Baun in the position where his former coach thought he was best

The free-agent addition from the New Orleans Saints ran with the first-team defense during practice Wednesday at the NovaCare Complex.

www.nj.com

This article is from May. Let's be clear. THIS is how Allen saw Baun. Special teams, OLB, pass rusher. He was never seriously considered by Allen as a MLB. As a backup LBer, he backed up MULTIPLE LB POSITIONS in case of injury. Just like Jackson now and other LBs before him. But he was used almost solely as an OLB, then at the end pass rusher. Trying to reframe this when so much evidence to the contrary exists is just silly.


He missed it. He played Baun out of position and others. Now he's gone. Trying to defend this is just...weird. The truth is obvious, let it go.

I'll respond to this in all honesty and say that wasn't what I understood/recalled to be the case at all.

I thought/recalled that he was a successful outside rusher in college based on his ability to bully people at that level, came in as a project to become an off ball LB (a choice people on the forum endlessly criticised the team for, needlessly moving a player out of position etc.), he didn't break through and then Allen started talking about him as a situational ST and edge guy, as a way to make use of him.

The following two articles, one from when he was drafted, and another as he entered free agency, seem to agree:

Rookie Roots: Story of Saints draft pick Zack Baun

"We saw someone that we felt was going to be drafted in the top 20 picks of the second round," Saints Coach Sean Payton said. "We felt like this was a player that would be hard for us to get because we didn't have a second-round pick. Fortunately, he came within range and we were able to make a trade.

"He had a lot of production in college as a rush end. He's a guy that we think can play at the Mike position and the Sam position. I do like his pressure traits, but we see him as someone that can play in a stack position if need be or certainly be a guy that can give us some versatility as a rusher."

Zack Baun's Value A Big Question For New Orleans Saints Entering Free Agency

After finally figuring out how to use him properly, how highly will the Saints value Zack Baun in free agency?

www.si.com

If that's not actually the sequence of events, happy to be informed.

But at the same time, the contortions people are going through, to retrospectively claim that Davis is a fading player who was not fit to be retained, just so that people can satisfy their need to criticize the team is ridiculous. Not to mention, lambasting the team when Baun was here for moving him to off ball LB, while later lambasting the team for not seeing his potential as an off ball LB?

 

[SonOfNOLA]

This article is from May. Let's be clear. THIS is how Allen saw Baun. Special teams, OLB, pass rusher. He was never seriously considered by Allen as a MLB. As a backup LBer, he backed up MULTIPLE LB POSITIONS in case of injury. Just like Jackson now and other LBs before him. But he was used almost solely as an OLB, then at the end pass rusher. Trying to reframe this when so much evidence to the contrary exists is just silly.


He missed it. He played Baun out of position and others. Now he's gone. Trying to defend this is just...weird. The truth is obvious, let it go.

Baun was a backup LB to multiple LB spots because there were already starters in front of him for his first 3 years with the Saints. We couldn’t play 4 LBs at once. He never pushed or outplayed the LBs in front of him.

Baun is not a starting pass rusher. He wasn’t played out of position when he’s starting as the same type of LB in Philly as he played with the Saints. He played both ILB and OLB. Only difference is Philly doesn’t have Davis, Werner, Alexander, and Elliss in his way for snaps. He’s the clear top LB in Philly which was the opportunity that he was looking for as a FA.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Nonsense. Baun isn't close to as good as DD now or ever.

Baun not re-signing or not performing the same as he is in Philly isn’t close to a coaching issue. Baun started games and saw the field as a LB in base and heavy. There’s nothing the coaches could’ve done differently for Baun when they had 2-3 legitimate starting LBs throughout Baun’s time here.

The FO is who could’ve made sure they lock up Baun long term. But it was Baun’s decision to seek the opportunity for eventual bigger salary and increased starting job that he felt he deserved.

His season in Philly will likely lead to 10M+ AAV in his next deal. He’d be looking at a max of half of that if he stayed in N.O. behind Davis and Werner. A deal in N.O. could’ve been structured for him to get near double digit AAV in the year that Davis retired but doesn’t make sense for the player to wait 2 seasons for it.

 

[St. Widge]

Well that's because that's the truth of it. Lot of revisionist history going on here to cover up playing Baun out of position.

The revisionist history is that he was played out of position here. Baun was developed as an off ball LB to play either Mike or WIL which are very similar positions in our defense. But, he never beat out the guys in front of him. Because of that he was used a SLB on occasion and as a situational pass rusher to try to get him on the field. And fans complained that they were trying to convert a pass rusher to an off ball LB and that they didn't use him more as a pass rusher. There were huge numbers of posts calling him a bust and calling for him to be cut until last year. Even last year most people didn't care if he left in free agency. Not to be a kiss arse, but I think Andrus was one of the few that thought singing Baun to a new contract was a good idea.

Now that it has been shown that the Saints were right to convert him to an off ball LB, everyone is pretending that they always knew he was an off ball LB but the Saints used him wrong by using him as a pass rusher.

This is the true history of Baun. It sucks that we lost him after we developed him, but he just never beat out the guys in front of him here and he took less money to go to Philly because they had an opening for him to start and we didn't.

 

[St. Widge]

It was a horrible decision to let him leave via FA...
More than the injury bug biting DD just can't run like he use too...

They didn't "decide to let him go in free agency". They offered him a contract but he took less money to go to Philly because they had a starting position open and we didn't.

And there is not a single person here who would not have been pissed and called Allen an idiot if he cut our All-Pro starting MIKE this year, who is also the undisputed leader of the team, in order to start Baun at MIKE when he had not yet shown that he was even a good off ball LB.

 

[St. Widge]

IDK I just looked at the 2019 depth chart and neither was listed as a starter.

2019 New Orleans Saints Roster & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2019 New Orleans Saints Roster, Players , Starters and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Did you look at the 2020 or 2021 depth charts? Because Anzalone was here until 2020 and CJGJ was here until 2021. And CJGJ was a starter in the Slot which often times does not really show up on the published depth chart.

Edit: And by the way, Anzalone was put on IR in mid-September of 2019 which is why he isn't listed as a starter in 2019 and why he only played 2 games that year.

 

[St. Widge]

There's observations/speculation and then there's the truth. The revisionist history on this thread is ridiculous.

From the article below:
“Zack’s probably best, we felt like, as an outside backer and an on-the-ball backer,” Allen said. “He’s got some rush ability.”
Allen didn’t rule out the idea that Baun could still play inside as a linebacker, but it was clear the Saints had come to the conclusion that he was more likely to have success as a pass rusher.

Here's a DIRECT QUOTE from Allen himself refuting what people in this thread are saying HE believed! LOL! He didn't see him as a MLB!

Eagles not using Zack Baun in the position where his former coach thought he was best

The free-agent addition from the New Orleans Saints ran with the first-team defense during practice Wednesday at the NovaCare Complex.

www.nj.com

This article is from May. Let's be clear. THIS is how Allen saw Baun. Special teams, OLB, pass rusher. He was never seriously considered by Allen as a MLB. As a backup LBer, he backed up MULTIPLE LB POSITIONS in case of injury. Just like Jackson now and other LBs before him. But he was used almost solely as an OLB, then at the end pass rusher. Trying to reframe this when so much evidence to the contrary exists is just silly.


He missed it. He played Baun out of position and others. Now he's gone. Trying to defend this is just...weird. The truth is obvious, let it go.

My mistake. I don't recall DA saying that but he obviously did.

But he did start Baun off as an off ball LB. He clearly decided he couldn't do it by May which was obviously a mistake. But, he was used and developed as an off ball LB in New Orleans. Baun left because he took less money in Philly for a starting job that he wasn't going to get here. Also, FWIW, the WIL position in DAs defense is an outside LB position, but it's really not much different than the ILB position.

 

[dtc]

Baun not re-signing or not performing the same as he is in Philly isn’t close to a coaching issue. Baun started games and saw the field as a LB in base and heavy. There’s nothing the coaches could’ve done differently for Baun when they had 2-3 legitimate starting LBs throughout Baun’s time here.

The FO is who could’ve made sure they lock up Baun long term. But it was Baun’s decision to seek the opportunity for eventual bigger salary and increased starting job that he felt he deserved.

His season in Philly will likely lead to 10M+ AAV in his next deal. He’d be looking at a max of half of that if he stayed in N.O. behind Davis and Werner. A deal in N.O. could’ve been structured for him to get near double digit AAV in the year that Davis retired but doesn’t make sense for the player to wait 2 seasons for it.

coulda woulda shoulda aint how it works.