N/S Zack Baun: Top Graded LB / DPOTW [Why Baun Isn’t a Saint Thread] (98 Viewers)

[2009ring]

Published depth charts are largely a work of fiction. Both were starters during their time here, unless you want to ignore the evidence of them being there on the field with the starters.

And since you're quoting pro football reference, you'll appreciate the same site states these two players started 51 games as Saints...

Anzalone - the 2 seasons here he was healthy he started 7 out of 16 games and 9 out of 16 games.

CJGJ - a little better, he started 31 out of 43 games played as a Saint.

So these two were not exactly DD or Cam Jordan who were ingrained as definite starters.

 

[meily]

Baun is not a full time NFL pass rusher in 3-4 or as DE.
He’s playing as a traditional stand up LB in Philly.
Traditional LB is Baun’s strengths in the NFL.

Baun never outplayed Davis, Werner, Alexander, and Elliss as a LB when he was a Saint. He would have Willie Gay’s role if he re-signed, which would’ve been significantly more LB snaps than Baun had in the past. Willie Gay was an established multi year starting LB on SB defenses, more established than Baun before this season.

It’s unfortunate that Baun didn’t get a chance to show that he can thrive as a starting LB1 or LB2 with the Saints. It wasn’t happening here with #56 and #20 still at the top of the LB depth chart. They established themselves as starting LBs more than Baun did.
Baun chose to take a full time starting LB job somewhere else as a FA.

Again, you draft guys who have a specific skillset and do not play them to their skillset then say well he did not outplay someone of a different skillset? I am only saying you'd think they had a plan for what they do well which is why you TRADED UP to get him.

Has anyone noticed how this defense lost its versatility? where is Vonn Bell or Michael Jenkins or CGJ? we have no complexity where are a defense with no bite.

 

[TribuneUK]

So these two were not exactly DD or Cam Jordan who were ingrained as definite starters.

None of which was ever the question or criteria.

Besides T-Rex, Baun, and Elliss, name me one player the Saints developed and left and became starters elsewhere.

They didn't become starters elsewhere. Simple as that.

It's an odd hill to die on, but your choices are your own.

 

[livefromDC]

My mistake. I don't recall DA saying that but he obviously did.

But he did start Baun off as an off ball LB. He clearly decided he couldn't do it by May which was obviously a mistake. But, he was used and developed as an off ball LB in New Orleans. Baun left because he took less money in Philly for a starting job that he wasn't going to get here. Also, FWIW, the WIL position in DAs defense is an outside LB position, but it's really not much different than the ILB position.

You're right Allen did. And he reached the conclusion that he's a ST'er and on ball LBer. End of story. There's no conjecture to it. The reason Baun left is debatable but in a sense you're right. He wasn't going to get that shot here no matter what. Allen didn't see him playing inside. Allen's words not mine.

Lamar Jackson was recruited by several colleges, but only one promised to play him at QB. He went to an arguably lesser football school (he was being recruited by Auburn, Florida State, and Ohio State) because of it. I think Baun left for less money because he'd get a chance to play at the position he felt he could thrive in.

In Allen's own words, he was not getting that shot in New Orleans. Not my idea or my belief...Alen's words. If the coach says, they don't view you as a MLB, you're not playing MLB regardless of who's on team.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Also both starters here before they left. Are we reading a different question, maybe?


They became starters here, not elsewhere. Otherwise all we're doing is listing starters lost to free agency, which is literally how it works for the entire league.

No no, the whole premise was that some people were complaining about us losing starters and they go and become all pros elsewhere. I'm saying we almost never lose someone and then they go and do better elsewhere. At least since 2006, the only ones that matched what they did here elsewhere were maybe Brandin Cooks(I didn't count him because we traded him which is why I'm not counting him or Graham, but he also didn't match what he did here), Baun and Elliss. We effectively have no one that's left us and then became an all pro except for T Rex. And we only lost him because of Covid.

 

[TribuneUK]

No no, the whole premise was that some people were complaining about us losing starters and they go and become all pros elsewhere. I'm saying we almost never lose someone and then they go and do better elsewhere. At least since 2006, the only ones that matched what they did here elsewhere were maybe Brandin Cooks(I didn't count him because we traded him which is why I'm not counting him or Graham, but he also didn't match what he did here), Baun and Elliss. We effectively have no one that's left us and then became an all pro except for T Rex. And we only lost him because of Covid.

Ahhh, well that's the problem with me only having read what Ring quote-replied to, I just went with what I saw there.

No offence intended and I can see now why Ring kept debating the point - to be fair, I did ask if we were both answering the same question

 

[2009ring]

Ahhh, well that's the problem with me only having read what Ring quote-replied to, I just went with what I saw there.

No offence intended and I can see now why Ring kept debating the point - to be fair, I did ask if we were both answering the same question

IDK anymore I just want us to not suck LOL

 

[SonOfNOLA]

Again, you draft guys who have a specific skillset and do not play them to their skillset then say well he did not outplay someone of a different skillset? I am only saying you'd think they had a plan for what they do well which is why you TRADED UP to get him.

Has anyone noticed how this defense lost its versatility? where is Vonn Bell or Michael Jenkins or CGJ? we have no complexity where are a defense with no bite.

The specific skillset is apart of Baun’s overall player profile. Baun’s scouting identified him as a college rushing OLB who was better suited to transition to pro off-ball LB than NFL level rusher based on his size and ability. His career has continued to develop into a thriving starting off ball LB, the position he was drafted for, not in the specific skillset of a rusher.

The position that he was drafted to convert to is where he’s thriving in the NFL. Off ball is his better long term skillset. He would’ve been buried or muddled further behind Cam, Trey, Davenport, and Carl if they were intending to make Baun a full time rusher. They’re all complete players as NFL Edges. He had an easier path to playing time and long term starting role as a LB. The goal was to develop Baun into a starting LB amongst Davis, and later Werner, as other LBs, including Werner, emerged or established themselves before he did.

He isn’t the first player who was drafted to play a different position as a pro based on their scouting. Fuaga played RT and Ruiz played C for their entire college careers but were moved to OL positions that were brand new to them. Some players immediately succeed at a new position while others take a few years to develop. Different players’ development pace differently.

Like mentioned before, Baun decided to be a team’s top 2 LB somewhere else. It’s not a bad thing that Baun’s succeeding elsewhere while the Saints had & have their starting LBs.

Besides, Baun was Payton’s pick at the time, not DA’s. The DC has input on the fit. But the selection is still the HC’s decision first. The HC has the initial vision first. That would be like saying some recent offensive or defensive picks not panning out is the fault of Woods or Carmichael.

 

[MikeyF]

They didn't "decide to let him go in free agency". They offered him a contract but he took less money to go to Philly because they had a starting position open and we didn't.

And there is not a single person here who would not have been pissed and called Allen an idiot if he cut our All-Pro starting MIKE this year, who is also the undisputed leader of the team, in order to start Baun at MIKE when he had not yet shown that he was even a good off ball LB.

The "decided to let him go" is in reference to him not have an avenue to start...

While DD earned a pro bowl last year he is getting very old for a starting LB & it is showing with his foot speed this year.
It has been showing with his ability in coverage for the last couple of years but you accept it because he was still a thumper.

We let Ricky Jackson walk when he was getting older...
Ricky Jackson is still the most amazing LB to ever play for the Saints!
Due to DD age fans would have complained but they would have understood.

 

[Wisco Steve]

Beast game again tonight. I am happy he's found a spot, a shame it didn't happen here though.

 

[Brandon13]

Beast game again tonight. I am happy he's found a spot, a shame it didn't happen here though.

Yeah.. regardless of how or why.. it's definitely a shame that a 27 year old linebacker that we drafted is now immediately blossoming elsewhere.

 

[Cajun Chat]

Imagine Hendrickson, Baun and Anzalone on this team.
That's an All-pro line-up. Throw in Ceedy for good measure.

 

[Wisco Steve]

Yeah.. regardless of how or why.. it's definitely a shame that a 27 year old linebacker that we drafted is now immediately blossoming elsewhere.

For sure. I've long been one of his biggest supporters around here. I was so excited when we drafted him--even knowing it would be a project. He grew up literally just one town over from me (Wisconsin suburbs). He was an amazing athlete, starting as a WR and then switching to a QB in high school. He passed and rushed for nearly 2K apiece as a senior--with 20 passing TDs and 39! rushing TDs. All while being an all-state basketball player and track star. He was raw transitioning to defense at UW, but was so explosive. I really thought we'd develop him, but it just never came together--until last year.

 

[DSnfla]

Hendrickson yes , Baun is a OLB in a 3/4 system if we ran a 3/4 yes. Anzalone was hurt most of the time he was here and took almost 3yrs to develop and he's just above avg, maybe

 

[saintmike23]

Imagine all the people
We drafted in ‘17

Yoohoo ooh ooh

You may say, I’m dreamer
Of another Saints Super Bowl