How To: Get the Saints back to the SB in (1) offseason (1 Viewer)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

1. We'll never get a 2nd for Ivory

2. Releasing Hawthorne isn't going to(or shouldn't) happen. Him and Lofton would be good at the ILB spots in the 3-4.

3. I hate this draft. Alex Okafor is much better off playing 4-3 DE. And why trade Ivory just to draft a RB with the second pick? Even if we did trade Ivory, we're okay with the other four(Sproles, Thomas, Ingram and Cadet). With the third pick you have us taking another undersized corner, but you said we needed to get bigger. I don't like any of your draft other than us getting Rambo.

All in all, I really hope the offseason doesn't go like this.

Ur attempting place Okafor in a DE only. He can play OLB in a 3-4. He has been doing just that in Texas. I like him on the strongside in the pro's because he can still beat RT's with his speed. To come in as a third down rusher would be an excellent positon for him and it sticks with the norm of us not starting our draftees(This is if Martez is used @ LOLB and Hawthorne is retained to play WILB)

Im still under the impression that Cadet started practicing with the WR's so i have him in the Roby Role WR/KR/RB

Its all about having vision to me. Pierre and Ingram expire in a few years. If pierre isn't retained and Ingram doesn't pan out we are left with what @ RB? Having Michael as a fall back option is pretty good. It gives us flexibility.

I guess no one has a problem with the LT situation so i think i addressed all our actual needs.

To offer up a draw how about Lane Johnson LT Oklahoma in the 1st and Brandon Jenkins OLB/DE FSU in the 3rd assuming we get a 3rd instead of a 2nd for Ivory? Keep Alford in the 2nd round.

 

[chad_moore]

Round 3(a) Brandon Williams - Missouri Southern 6'2 241 NT



Brandon Williams - Drive To Make It - YouTube

Is that a misprint? There is no way we can have a guy weighing only 241 and trying to play the NT role in a 3-4. Heck that almost too small to play any of the LB positions. I thought we wanted a NT in the 315 and up range?

I like some of your draft, but think it's too heavy on the offensive side of the ball. We have a need at Tackle and outside of Bushrod (who I think we make another fair offer to keep) we really don't have anyone that is proven to hold down the left or right side. Strief, Brown and the PS guy are solid backups at best. Strief is best used as a backup or eligible TE...he's older, and keeps getting hurt. I'd rather see Brown earn a spot (not get thrown into it because of injury) and play a solid year at RT first. We need a solid OT!!!!

I don't see Ivory getting trade for anything better than a 5th rounder. He hasn't played a full season and it is known that is running style is prone to cutting his season short...each and every year. I see us letting him walk.

Harper will restructure, but I don't see him being cut...the cap hit would be deathly!

Aside from that, I like your pic at DC and think everything else is right in line. So much is going to come down to your second or "B" point...who we bring in as DC. Once they designate that person and whether they bring their own staff in or not, then the real player evaluation will commence and cuts and restructures will be made.


Oh...and I think Brees does a re-work of his contract to free up some space too.

 

[Saint of Killers]

Ur attempting place Okafor in a DE only. He can play OLB in a 3-4. He has been doing just that in Texas. I like him on the strongside in the pro's because he can still beat RT's with his speed. To come in as a third down rusher would be an excellent positon for him and it sticks with the norm of us not starting our draftees(This is if Martez is used @ LOLB and Hawthorne is retained to play WILB)

Im still under the impression that Cadet started practicing with the WR's so i have him in the Roby Role WR/KR/RB

Its all about having vision to me. Pierre and Ingram expire in a few years. If pierre isn't retained and Ingram doesn't pan out we are left with what @ RB? Having Michael as a fall back option is pretty good. It gives us flexibility.

I guess no one has a problem with the LT situation so i think i addressed all our actual needs.

To offer up a draw how about Lane Johnson LT Oklahoma in the 1st and Brandon Jenkins OLB/DE FSU in the 3rd assuming we get a 3rd instead of a 2nd for Ivory? Keep Alford in the 2nd round.

We have a few years before we need to worry about drafting any skill position players maybe other than a 2nd TE. And i'm not cool with what you got us going with at LT. If we roll into the season with Brown as our starter I won't feel good about it all. And if we pick Lane Johnson at 15 I won't like that either. I don't think he'll be able to step in day one as our starting LT so if Fisher is gone we better go defense at 15.

And dude your still over-estimating what we can get for Ivory. At the very best we could MAYBE land a 4th for him. This is coming from a guy that loves having Ivory and doesn't wanna lose him. No one values Ivory more than Saints fan so don't expect us to net an early pick for him. I know the idea of trading down and racking up on picks sounds great because we need depth to fill out the defense for this new scheme, but i'm tired of picking late in the first and either getting busts or average players. We need a playmaker on defense and with all the good defensive players in this draft and the fact were picking before pick 20 this is our year to get one. Stay at 15 and hope a star falls to us. Hope we get our 2nd rounder back and hope another good starter slips out of the first and into our lap in the second. We gotta make this draft count for now. Can't trade away for the future when we might only have Drew four more years.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Is that a misprint? There is no way we can have a guy weighing only 241 and trying to play the NT role in a 3-4. Heck that almost too small to play any of the LB positions. I thought we wanted a NT in the 315 and up range?

I like some of your draft, but think it's too heavy on the offensive side of the ball. We have a need at Tackle and outside of Bushrod (who I think we make another fair offer to keep) we really don't have anyone that is proven to hold down the left or right side. Strief, Brown and the PS guy are solid backups at best. Strief is best used as a backup or eligible TE...he's older, and keeps getting hurt. I'd rather see Brown earn a spot (not get thrown into it because of injury) and play a solid year at RT first. We need a solid OT!!!!

I don't see Ivory getting trade for anything better than a 5th rounder. He hasn't played a full season and it is known that is running style is prone to cutting his season short...each and every year. I see us letting him walk.

Harper will restructure, but I don't see him being cut...the cap hit would be deathly!

Aside from that, I like your pic at DC and think everything else is right in line. So much is going to come down to your second or "B" point...who we bring in as DC. Once they designate that person and whether they bring their own staff in or not, then the real player evaluation will commence and cuts and restructures will be made.


Oh...and I think Brees does a re-work of his contract to free up some space too.

Yeah Misprint. 341 lbs Ill take things into consideration and reorder my depth chart n draft tomorrow based on feedback and Roman Harper staying put but restructuring

Thought id post this article too. Probably deserves its own thread

http://m.ajc.com/weblogs/uga-sports/2013/jan/25/todd-granthams-name-still-getting-nfl-circulation/

Looks like we might have the inside track to Grantham. Payton is taking his time for a reason.

 

[whosyadaddy]

Yeah Misprint. 341 lbs Ill take things into consideration and reorder my depth chart n draft tomorrow based on feedback and Roman Harper staying put but restructuring

Thought id post this article too. Probably deserves its own thread

Todd Grantham's name still getting NFL circulation | UGA Sports | www.ajc.com

Looks like we might have the inside track to Grantham. Payton is taking his time for a reason.

It certainly appears that way, The fact that Payton announced the switch to the 3-4 without yet having acquired a DC leads you to believe he has a guy already picked out and is waiting for the green light to sign him.

On an off note I would like to ask you about our ILB situation Ellias. I have read and seen many projected starting lineups, most having Hawthorne and Lofton as the starters, some having Wilson as the RILB. I hear constantly that to run a 3-4 effectively you need that sideline to sideline inside backer to cover adequately, besides having two thumpers in the middle. We seem to be ok with the thumping requirement, but who do you feel is our sideline to sideline cover guy among the inside backers we have? Definitely not Hawthorne, will it be Lofton who many say coverage is his achilles heel or Wilson? Or is this something you see us addressing in the draft?

 

[St4ever]

So you think we should go into the season with Jenkins and Robinson as our starters at CB
So we are gonna use a corner that could not cut it at corner and one that got torched every time he stepped on the field last year.

 

[treeduck]

Interesting read. I agree with a lot of your offseason moves but not the Hawthorne move, or the draft. A running back and two WRs? Alex Akafor will probably go at the top of the 2nd round, no need to reach for him in the first round even if we trade back.

 

[FootballLady]

I admit the Ivory trade is a bit of a reach but being that its a late 2nd and they already have a second it wouldn't hurt.

A bit of a reach??? We traded Reggie Bush for Jonathan Amaya and swapping selections in the 6th round. If we trade Ivory for anything it won't be higher than a 5th round selection.

 

[bornnraisedwhodat]

I'll forward this to sp!

 

[texasjefe]

In reality, I think the Saints will address the offensive line much more than Elias did, and draft a lineman in the first 3 picks.

While I agree with you Elias - I've never liked the small stature of our corners (I still miss Vince Buck from the late 1980s), I think the emphasis continues to be on the front 7, with little change coming in the secondary.

 

[play action]

I thought spags would help alot but he just didn't have the players he had with the giants. he had guys that were pass rushing masters, inside pressure outside pressure front four pressure. Easy to see in hindsight,but it shouldn't have been. Maybe a 3-4 gets the most out of the current roster and the upcoming draft-free agency hope so. The o has issues at tackle(injury mainly) and with predictability, could use a bit of third and short push as well. get stronger or smarter- to many can't pick up a yard, up the gut, stonewalled, drive killer plays for my liking.

 

[Jubilee Dunbar]

We wont get a 2nd for Ivory. Plus i wouldn't draft another RB that high. We are loaded there. Need to draft defense and OT with available picks.

 

[RaisingTheBar]

1. We'll never get a 2nd for Ivory

2. Releasing Hawthorne isn't going to(or shouldn't) happen. Him and Lofton would be good at the ILB spots in the 3-4.

3. I hate this draft. Alex Okafor is much better off playing 4-3 DE. And why trade Ivory just to draft a RB with the second pick? Even if we did trade Ivory, we're okay with the other four(Sproles, Thomas, Ingram and Cadet). With the third pick you have us taking another undersized corner, but you said we needed to get bigger. I don't like any of your draft other than us getting Rambo.

All in all, I really hope the offseason doesn't go like this.

Agree 100%

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

Man, interesting one. I'm just going to go down the list.

-I haven't taken a stance on the DC. I'm basically in a wait and see mode, and from there, I'll look at the All-22 of how they use players and how their scheme works. Too many candidates out there for me to do this for all possibilities.

-I think we spoke about the Roman Harper release. I'm warming up to the idea but I'm not sure it'll happen. We'd have a 3.5M cap hit over the 2013 and 2014 season if we let him go. At the end of the day, he's overpaid and his performance isn't matching his dollar amount.

-I disagree with the Hawthorne release. I just don't think people know what type of football player this guy can be. He's the most natural MIKE on our roster and is our best coverage LBer (now that Vilma has regressed). He's good against the run and the pass and an extremely smart player. I think he's going to prove a lot of people wrong this upcoming year.

-I don't know if Greer is a nickel corner. Can't just take CBs and move them around and expect them to be successful. Only a few guys like that in the league. He's more of a boundary guy and should probably stay there. He's still our best coverage CB.

-Bushrod. I'm actually of the belief that if we don't get him resigned, then we go with Brown. I'm one of the few people on this board that actually believes that he can get it done. He's a good pass blocker but needs work against the run. The biggest concern is that he can't stay healthy. If he has lingering health issues going into the offseason, then we have to address the LT position.

-DLP played as well as any of our offensive lineman this past season and I hope we are able to eventually lock him up. Stability.

-Ivory for a 2nd round pick? Not in a million years. I think at best, we got a 5th for him. And that may be a stretch.

-I'm not sure Okafur is a first round DE, especially not at #15. He's falls between the late 1st and early to mid 2nd round. That's be a MAJOR reach for us.

-If we select a RB in the 2nd, I'd fly to NOLA and start laying the smack down to some of the FO people. Also, that would be too much $$$ invested into the RB position.

-As for Martez to ILB, I think that would be a good for him in a subpackage since we'd potentially have other guys who can rush on the edge. Just because he is good in space and fast doesn't make him an ILB. You have to be cerebral and instinctive to play there. Your reads have to be right and you are two gapping guards. I think we need to treat Martez like a missle and give him a target and tell him to go get it until he gets comfortable - playing him at ILB wouldn't do that.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Man, interesting one. I'm just going to go down the list.

-I haven't taken a stance on the DC. I'm basically in a wait and see mode, and from there, I'll look at the All-22 of how they use players and how their scheme works. Too many candidates out there for me to do this for all possibilities.

-I think we spoke about the Roman Harper release. I'm warming up to the idea but I'm not sure it'll happen. We'd have a 3.5M cap hit over the 2013 and 2014 season if we let him go. At the end of the day, he's overpaid and his performance isn't matching his dollar amount.

-I disagree with the Hawthorne release. I just don't think people know what type of football player this guy can be. He's the most natural MIKE on our roster and is our best coverage LBer (now that Vilma has regressed). He's good against the run and the pass and an extremely smart player. I think he's going to prove a lot of people wrong this upcoming year.

-I don't know if Greer is a nickel corner. Can't just take CBs and move them around and expect them to be successful. Only a few guys like that in the league. He's more of a boundary guy and should probably stay there. He's still our best coverage CB.

-Bushrod. I'm actually of the belief that if we don't get him resigned, then we go with Brown. I'm one of the few people on this board that actually believes that he can get it done. He's a good pass blocker but needs work against the run. The biggest concern is that he can't stay healthy. If he has lingering health issues going into the offseason, then we have to address the LT position.

-DLP played as well as any of our offensive lineman this past season and I hope we are able to eventually lock him up. Stability.

-Ivory for a 2nd round pick? Not in a million years. I think at best, we got a 5th for him. And that may be a stretch.

-I'm not sure Okafur is a first round DE, especially not at #15. He's falls between the late 1st and early to mid 2nd round. That's be a MAJOR reach for us.

-If we select a RB in the 2nd, I'd fly to NOLA and start laying the smack down to some of the FO people. Also, that would be too much $$$ invested into the RB position.

-As for Martez to ILB, I think that would be a good for him in a subpackage since we'd potentially have other guys who can rush on the edge. Just because he is good in space and fast doesn't make him an ILB. You have to be cerebral and instinctive to play there. Your reads have to be right and you are two gapping guards. I think we need to treat Martez like a missle and give him a target and tell him to go get it until he gets comfortable - playing him at ILB wouldn't do that.

Alex Ogletree who is considered one of the better ILB prospects played all world in Granthams defense. Similar body type as Wilson maybe a little better in coverage as he was a converted safety but also very similar scouting report

However one of the main knocks on Ogletree is that he lacks intincts/play recognition.

Now if Ogletree can be used in that same ILB role with college coaching then id like to assume that Martez with 3 years of NFL coaching as a similar player with similar physical attributes can do the same thing.


Im not doubting that Hawthorne can be a good/great ILB and im not doubting that he will return. Just from my vision im a what have you done for me lately kind of guy and the truth is ...he did NOTHING.

Spags was a similar situation...sure he had potential to do better in his 2nd year but the fact of the matter is he did nothing witih the opportunity that was given to him and he was canned...regardless if we were planning a 3-4 switch or not.

I see the same reasoning for hawthorne. He was brought in to play WLB in spags scheme didin't perform and IMHO doesn't deserve 4mil next year based off of his efforts this year.

Id rather keep Chamberlain and ask him to gain weight from 239 to about the 245 range and backup an ILB position and STILL play special teams. Lofton earned the right to return but i don't think Hawthorne did.


I wouldn't pick Okafor@ 14 either. Several passrushers with 1st round grades are going to slide. At least 2-3. Its why im advocating us to trade back to 22 and get some extra picks to help balance the lack of a 2nd rounder. @ 22 we shoudl still be able to get a 3rd down passrusher/future starter that ended up sliding. We can bring him along slowly.

Okafor@ 22 would be a bit of a reach but id rather get him b4 a team like the falcons pounce on him and he torments us for the next 10 yrs. We selected cam jordan around this area and he was more of a 2down player @ first. I think he could come in and Start@ SOLB but we wouldn't need him to if we signed a veteran to come in and start.