Dalton - we are a better team (1 Viewer)

[picnicwithfish]

How do you build an offense around a guy who won't throw short, intermediate routes, stares down the field waiting for longer developing routes, when the league has figured out to just blitz him? He can't/won't make the blitz reads and adjustments. What's the offense for this?

I think you just answered your own question…

 

[Cajun Chat]

The Tampa style wasn’t great either. What team runs an offense that would suit Winston?

It's a legitimate question. The truth is he will be an average QB. He has some lights out games and some "what the hell was he thinking" games. That equals out to average.

 

[jahsoul357]

How do you build an offense around a guy who won't throw short, intermediate routes, stares down the field waiting for longer developing routes, when the league has figured out to just blitz him? He can't/won't make the blitz reads and adjustments. What's the offense for this?

Up until this week, he was #2 in intermediate passes thrown and has throws for 72% on those throws....lol. And the intermediate routes were the base of our offense with Drew in his prime. He would wait for the long developing routes and if they weren't there, he would dump it to Sproles or hit Graham going past a TE.

But that’s the issue with bringing in Winston. I’m rooting for him and hope he succeeds big time. However, the coaches have a certain style that fits Brees/Dalton etc, so why bring in Winston and refuse to change it. Pretty bizarre to me.

The thing is, the style that we commonly associate with Brees (the dink and dunk) was not his style until around 2017. Jameis' "style" is more akin to prime Brees than folks know or want to admit. The question is, do we still have that playbook hanging around.

Because they don't have the energy to do it...which kinda explains why they could've been interested in a QB like Watson, it's because they don't have to develop an offense, they can setup an offense where the QB gets the snap, runs around, then delivers an off schedule miracle. They, Coach Pete, didn't have the nerve for a full system overhaul....and that's why he's revealing himself to be a bad hire.

Why would they need to overhaul when we ran an offense that matches all of his strengths? That my question...

 

[Judge_Smails]

How do you build an offense around a guy who won't throw short, intermediate routes, stares down the field waiting for longer developing routes, when the league has figured out to just blitz him? He can't/won't make the blitz reads and adjustments. What's the offense for this?

JW threw for 4k+ yds and won 9 games, but missed the playoffs under Koetter in 2016. That was his second year. His next full starting season was the 5k season with 30/30 td/ints. He turned it over too much but was playing injured down the stretch that year and still carried the Tampa O (for better and worse).

Point being a more play action based Air Coryell type system is the offense for him. He is not a fit for Pete Cy’s retrofit of the 5 yd passing offense the Saints started running when Drew could no longer threaten to stretch the field on every play.

Andy should play until JW is healthy and probably after if this is what the O is going to be. Another loss today means it might not matter by the time JW gets healthy. Andy mostly solid today, but not good enough to overcome the major flaws with the O.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Up until this week, he was #2 in intermediate passes thrown and has throws for 72% on those throws....lol. And the intermediate routes were the base of our offense with Drew in his prime. He would wait for the long developing routes and if they weren't there, he would dump it to Sproles or hit Graham going past a TE.


The thing is, the style that we commonly associate with Brees (the dink and dunk) was not his style until around 2017. Jameis' "style" is more akin to prime Brees than folks know or want to admit. The question is, do we still have that playbook hanging around.

See your problem is that you're trying to use facts in a feeling based argument....to some it felt like he wasn't doing well on teh short-intermediate game, so anything else would be seen as an improvement to them

 

[No2DC]

Ya he got the win, right?

 

[Saint Spud]

There will be plenty of threads about this subject but if Allen puts Jameis back in and he struggles he will lose this fan base and this team.

Dalton actually goes through progressions. Changes the plays at the LOS. It feels like a more settled team. It's one game so let's see what happens. I don't think Dalton is the answer long term but he seems like a smarter more settle QB. A saavy veteran.

Jameis had almost 2 years in this system and Dalton looked better after 4 games in our system.

We are absolutely better with healthy Dalton over broken back Jameis.

I still think healthy Jameis would give us a better chance to make a deep run.

But…if we’re being honest? Will he be healthy this year? Will he ever be early 2021 healthy where teams couldn’t turn their back or else he’d pick up chunk yards with his legs?

As much as I had high hopes for Jameis, the injury (and Dalton’s play) make Dalton the no-brainer play for the foreseeable future.

 

[boutte]

The point is; why would you screw your own team and QB1 over by committing to him as QB1 and then not adjusting your offense to what he does best?

JW is still injured, which certainly hurts everything, but the offensive design and play calling is mostly predictable and suited for a ball control short passing game with shot plays to stretch the D.

Andy can be more comfortable in that type of system, but not dynamic enough to win a game. JW is dynamic enough to win games, but is not a fit.

Disagree with this. The O scheme is fine. Any competent QB should be able to run it and win games using it. Add MT and/or Kamara and we win this game even with the refs taking over in the 4th.

 

[nolaswede]

Up until this week, he was #2 in intermediate passes thrown and has throws for 72% on those throws....lol. And the intermediate routes were the base of our offense with Drew in his prime. He would wait for the long developing routes and if they weren't there, he would dump it to Sproles or hit Graham going past a TE.


The thing is, the style that we commonly associate with Brees (the dink and dunk) was not his style until around 2017. Jameis' "style" is more akin to prime Brees than folks know or want to admit. The question is, do we still have that playbook hanging around.


Why would they need to overhaul when we ran an offense that matches all of his strengths? That my question...

I’m not really talking about the dink and dunk, but I understand what you are saying. Dalton had a lot of good completions over 20+ yards today, finding the soft zone etc. That didn’t really happen the first 3 games.

And we actually had some decent success in the screen game today. Pretty sure we lost yardage on those plays before this game.

 

[Judge_Smails]

Disagree with this. The O scheme is fine. Any competent QB should be able to run it and win games using it. Add MT and/or Kamara and we win this game even with the refs taking over in the 4th.

So Lamar Jackson would ball in this offense? Josh Allen?

I don’t buy it. I am fine with Dalton remaining the starter, but mostly expect losses the rest of the season. The O is not good enough, the team makes horrible mistakes at the worst times (2 fumbles lost today) and the defense eventually gives up big plays because they are under pressure because of our offense all game.

Throw in crappy officiating and there it is.

 

[jahsoul357]

JW threw for 4k+ yds and won 9 games, but missed the playoffs under Koetter in 2016. That was his second year. His next full starting season was the 5k season with 30/30 td/ints. He turned it over too much but was playing injured down the stretch that year and still carried the Tampa O (for better and worse).

Point being a more play action based Air Coryell type system is the offense for him. He is not a fit for Pete Cy’s retrofit of the 5 yd passing offense the Saints started running when Drew could no longer threaten to stretch the field on every play.

Andy should play until JW is healthy and probably after if this is what the O is going to be. Another loss today means it might not matter by the time JW gets healthy. Andy mostly solid today, but not good enough to overcome the major flaws with the O.

These are the things that people don't realize. Criticism of a player isn't a thing but when you just start throwing things out there, I begin to question.
And it's funny you mention the play action based Air Coryell because dangit, somebody tell me what offense we ran when the Saints were the greatest offensive team in the league?

See your problem is that you're trying to use facts in a feeling based argument....to some it felt like he wasn't doing well on teh short-intermediate game, so anything else would be seen as an improvement to them

From behind the line to 20 yards, Jameis in 72% percent. That among the best in the league but let people on here tell it...lol.

Dalton had a lot of good completions over 20+ yards today, finding the soft zone etc. That didn’t really happen the first 3 games.

This is all people had said Jameis has done. They say that he only comes alive halfway through the 3rd when defenses begin to "soften" up. Funny enough, Dalton had ONE sustained drive in the first half and "came alive" halfway through the 3rd.

 

[lapaz]

We lost he contributed with the fumble he’s with Winston get a rookie train him up period

He contributed to the loss slightly with that fumble, but EVERY QB makes mistakes. However he contributed far more than Winston has by making accurate passes, quickly getting the ball out, and making adjustments. Dalton made a couple of questionable passes, and he’s not an all star, but he was above average today. That’s what we saw in preseason as well, and it reflects his past performance. We are more likely to win with Dalton.

 

[IlovemySaints]

He contributed to the loss slightly with that fumble, but EVERY QB makes mistakes. However he contributed far more than Winston has by making accurate passes, quickly getting the ball out, and making adjustments. Dalton made a couple of questionable passes, and he’s not an all star, but he was above average today. That’s what we saw in preseason as well, and it reflects his past performance. We are more likely to win with Dalton.

Slightly right but if he drove down got 3 then we got ball at half and he scored y’all would be giving the job to him lol slightly imagine he didn’t fumble , when is one touchdown pass slightly above average

 

[ktulu909]

LIke the one Olave caught towards the end of today's game?

situationally,what play would you have prefered?

 

[Saint Jack]

This may be off topic, but if Dalton was named the permanent starter, how many seasons can he go for? He’s 34 right now.