Florida Principal Out After Viewing Of Michelangelo's 'David' Upsets Parents (1 Viewer)

[Boy_of_wonder75]

Is this really necessary?

Considering that the statue of David was originally commissioned to be placed on top of the cathedral in Florence and was only moved because it was thought so beautiful that everyone in the town should get to see it, yes, I think it is.

 

[rajncajn]

Considering that the statue of David was originally commissioned to be placed on top of the cathedral in Florence and was only moved because it was thought so beautiful that everyone in the town should get to see it, yes, I think it is.

Do you think everyone should have to agree with what the church thinks is appropriate?

Regardless, your point was intellectually dishonest. It's presumes that I have an issue with the statue itself and/or showing it to children, which is not the issue at all. The issue is respecting parents who DO have an issue with it. You merely posted that in an attempt to discredit me by making my pov appear more extreme than it actually was.

 

[Boy_of_wonder75]

Do you think everyone should have to agree with what the church thinks is appropriate?

Regardless, your point was intellectually dishonest. It's presumes that I have an issue with the statue itself and/or showing it to children, which is not the issue at all. The issue is respecting parents who DO have an issue with it. You merely posted that in an attempt to discredit me by making my pov appear more extreme than it actually was.

My point is that those who DO have an issue with it ought to be ignored, not emboldened. It's not about "the church." It's about an understanding of classical western civilization and history.

 

[rajncajn]

My point is that those who DO have an issue with it ought to be ignored, not emboldened. It's not about "the church." It's about an understanding of classical western civilization and history.

My point is that as long as it's not taking away from YOUR child, YOU or a teacher or a school should not get a say in what is and isnt sexually appropriate for another parent's child. All parents should be afforded the opportunity to withhold that from THEIR child if they do choose rather than being chided, dismissed and ignored.

 

[Consigliere]

Out of curiosity, what if the art was Kama art, or ancient Greek vases depicting bestiality?

I would leave that up to the teachers and principals.

Between teachers and parents, I would leave it up to teachers every time.

Especially Florida parents.

 

[SystemShock]

Between teachers and parents, I would leave it up to teachers every time.

Really? Every time?

 

[Sailorsaint]

My point is that as long as it's not taking away from YOUR child, YOU or a teacher or a school should not get a say in what is and isnt sexually appropriate for another parent's child. All parents should be afforded the opportunity to withhold that from THEIR child if they do choose rather than being chided, dismissed and ignored.

That's an awfully slippery slope. If said parent doesn't want their child to view a particular piece of art, but the other parents approve of it, what is that parent to do? Keep their child out of school for that day? That's not fair to that child. And I'm betting that the parent will not want to do that and will complain. Eventually, there are enough parents to force a change in curriculum. The other parents don't like this, but their concerns about their child missing out on the curriculum don't matter. Now, the children are getting less of an education because one parent thought that the statue of David was pornagraphic. If you think this is preposterous, I think you can find this happening all across the nation right now. We aren't that far from having public book burnings.

It's a tough question, right? Where do we draw the line in public schools? I know we need to take parents' concerns in consideration. I wouldn't want my child to view photos from Penthouse in school. But a classical statue that contributes to history is another matter altogether.

My part in this conversation really began when I felt that the principal shouldn't have been fired over this. Yes, they didn't follow the rules. But, it wasn't willful, it was an administrative mistake. Reprimand them, send them home without pay for a week. But, because of a parent complaining, they were fired. What if the majority of the parents liked the way the principal was running the school? They don't get a say? Nope, check my first paragraph. The loudest squeak gets the oil.

 

[Krodwhodat]

 

[DaveXA]

That's an awfully slippery slope. If said parent doesn't want their child to view a particular piece of art, but the other parents approve of it, what is that parent to do? Keep their child out of school for that day? That's not fair to that child. And I'm betting that the parent will not want to do that and will complain. Eventually, there are enough parents to force a change in curriculum. The other parents don't like this, but their concerns about their child missing out on the curriculum don't matter. Now, the children are getting less of an education because one parent thought that the statue of David was pornagraphic. If you think this is preposterous, I think you can find this happening all across the nation right now. We aren't that far from having public book burnings.

It's a tough question, right? Where do we draw the line in public schools? I know we need to take parents' concerns in consideration. I wouldn't want my child to view photos from Penthouse in school. But a classical statue that contributes to history is another matter altogether.

My part in this conversation really began when I felt that the principal shouldn't have been fired over this. Yes, they didn't follow the rules. But, it wasn't willful, it was an administrative mistake. Reprimand them, send them home without pay for a week. But, because of a parent complaining, they were fired. What if the majority of the parents liked the way the principal was running the school? They don't get a say? Nope, check my first paragraph. The loudest squeak gets the oil.

Indeed, the firing principals is really an overreaction. You can discipline administrators for not following the rules or whatever. And comparison purposes, in this case it seems more like a misdemeanor offense than a felony.

And in most instances, school admins and teachers have a better understanding than parents in how to handle these situations, but certainly not in every situation. Parents can and should be involved in their kids' education as much as possible. I'm actually kinda relieved that all 4 of my kids are in college and beyond. School was stressful all too often, lol.

 

[rajncajn]

That's an awfully slippery slope. If said parent doesn't want their child to view a particular piece of art, but the other parents approve of it, what is that parent to do? Keep their child out of school for that day? That's not fair to that child. And I'm betting that the parent will not want to do that and will complain.

That's exactly what the parent would have to do and if they don't like it, then too bad. What's slippery is allowing the teacher or school to decide what is appropriate without notifying the parents.

Eventually, there are enough parents to force a change in curriculum. The other parents don't like this, but their concerns about their child missing out on the curriculum don't matter. Now, the children are getting less of an education because one parent thought that the statue of David was pornagraphic. If you think this is preposterous, I think you can find this happening all across the nation right now. We aren't that far from having public book burnings.

This is a bit of fear-mongering. If "enough parents" have an issue with the curriculum, then we need to consider that there may actually be a problem with the curriculum. However, that is not the issue in this case. The school board didn't have an issue with the curriculum. They had an issue with how the principal handled it.

It's a tough question, right? Where do we draw the line in public schools? I know we need to take parents' concerns in consideration. I wouldn't want my child to view photos from Penthouse in school. But a classical statue that contributes to history is another matter altogether.

I don't think it's tough at all. You notify parents if you are dealing with anything that would be construed as sexual in nature. If you're going to be showing genitalia, sex acts or suggestive sexual acts, you notify parents. If they have an issue with it then they bring it up with the teacher. The teacher should be prepared to make accommodations for that student, such as sitting in with another class or having an excused absence.

My part in this conversation really began when I felt that the principal shouldn't have been fired over this. Yes, they didn't follow the rules. But, it wasn't willful, it was an administrative mistake. Reprimand them, send them home without pay for a week. But, because of a parent complaining, they were fired. What if the majority of the parents liked the way the principal was running the school? They don't get a say? Nope, check my first paragraph. The loudest squeak gets the oil.

Someone did an interview with the school board member & he stated that this wasn't the only issue with her. He eluded that there were ongoing issues that she was well aware of, despite her saying that she had no idea. Here is the full interview:

An Interview With the School Board Chair Who Forced Out a Principal After Michelangelo’s David Was Shown in Class

"Well, we’re Florida, OK?"

slate.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

Ah, the Renaissance. A period that saw the growth of intellectual reason, the flowering of art and culture, and a lot of very hardcore pornography.

Such is the opinion of aggrieved parents of kids at Tallahassee classical school in Florida, anyway. Their sixth-graders (who are aged around 11-12) were shown a picture of Michelangelo’s sculpture of David during a Renaissance art class. Fairly normal, one might think – particularly for a school that advertises itself as providing a classical education.

Nope: a firing offence. One parent called the sculpture “pornographic” and so much outrage ensued that the principal of the school, Hope Carrasquilla, was forced out.

This may seem completely bonkers to many of us but, Carrasquilla, the former principal, told the Huffington Post that she wasn’t entirely surprised by the reaction.

Every “once in a while you get a parent who gets upset about Renaissance art”. Indeed, normally, a letter is sent out to parents of students warning them that their kiddos are going to see a picture of one of the world’s most famous sculptures.

(I believe this is known as a “trigger warning”, something I thought the right were vehemently against.) This year, however, due to a “series of miscommunications”, the letter wasn’t sent out, exacerbating parental anger.

According to Slate, who interviewed Barney Bishop III, the school board chair responsible for forcing Carrasquilla out of her job, three parents were behind the bulk of the David-related outrage. Three parents. Three!

But the number of angry parents doesn’t matter, because, according to Bishop, parents are always right. “Parental rights are supreme, and that means protecting the interests of all parents, whether it’s one, 10, 20 or 50,” Bishop said to the Tallahassee Democrat.

Bishop, by the way, denies that Carrasquilla was solely forced out because she showed the kids Michelangelo’s David. He wasn’t able to fully explain why she was forced out, however, but in his interview with Slate he reiterated his idea that the parents are always right.

“The rights of parents, that trumps the rights of kids,” he told Slate. “Teachers are the experts? Teachers have all the knowledge? Are you kidding me? I know lots of teachers that are very good, but to suggest they are the authorities, you’re on better drugs than me.”

Which raises the question: what kind of drugs is Bishop on?……..

In Florida, parents are always right – even when they think a Michelangelo is porn

A principal was fired after a Renaissance art class was shown David in the latest example of the state’s censorship crusade

www.theguardian.com

 

[Yatman]

"Tallahassee Classical School is training the minds and improving the hearts of young people through a content-rich classical education in the liberal arts and sciences, with instruction in the principles of moral character and civic virtue."

Shouldn't this have been a flag to the parents?

yes, and three administrators in as many years is a flag about the parents

perhaps their notion of "classical" includes hank williams senior and mountain dew sweetened with real sugar

still, the david-measuring among some participants in this thread has delivered

 

[Zztop]

Is the David porn? Come see, Italians tell Florida parents

A Florence museum and the city's mayor are inviting parents and students from a Florida charter school to visit and see Michelangelo’s sculpture of David.

apnews.com

 

[rajncajn]

Is the David porn? Come see, Italians tell Florida parents

A Florence museum and the city's mayor are inviting parents and students from a Florida charter school to visit and see Michelangelo’s sculpture of David.

apnews.com

A total of one person claimed it was pornographic. Yet, here we are.

 

[Nisey55]

Not to take away from the subject but this makes me think of my Mom.
When my parents were still living they were lucky enough to take a trip to Italy, not something they would have thought financially possible after raising such a large family.
So Mom comes home gushing over all they experienced and adds that even though she raised 6 boys she had never seen so many penises.