Christian McCaffrey or Alvin Kamara ??? (1 Viewer)

I saw somewhere yesterday ( can't remember) , where some sports media guy considered Christian McCaffrey the third best running back of all time.

While I think McCaffrey is an exceptional running back, I would not put him at third. (Sanders, Brown, Payton, Dickerson, Tomlinson come to mind first)
I would also take the following over McCaffrey...
  • Steve Van Buren
  • Marion Motley
  • Dutch Clark
  • Bronko Nagurski
  • Adrian Peterson
  • Larry Cszonka
  • Leroy Kelly
  • Joe Perry
  • Earl Campbell
  • Ernie Nevers
 
Impossible to over rate Barry. Clear-cut head and shoulders above every RB to play. He had so many handicap in Detroit compared to Emmitt
His Oline wasnt as great as the Cowboys or the studs Jim Brown ran behind...but its a misnomer to say he ran behind a bad OLine.

He played with Lomas Brown who probably should be a HoF finalist. He also played with Kevin Glover, Bill Fralic, and Jeff Hartings who were all capable Olineman.

Walter Payton played a larger portion of his career around much less talent.

I think Barry is overrated in that he almost always appears as THE #1 RB. I would have him in my top 5, but I dont think he would ever be my #1 and yes I watched him play. I watched far more than his highlight reel.
 
It all depends on the OL in front of them. Alvin was better early on, but Cmac looks better today. Of course, Cmac looks better today than he did with Carollina. He's not top 3 all time regardless of who he plays for.
Kamara needs to play in an offense with a zone blocking scheme as it plays to his strengths as a slasher and plays to his quickness.
 
I kind of compare the Kamara vs. McCaffrey debate to the JJ Watt vs. Cam Jordan debate.

Both sets of players were drafted the same year and have similar career stats. However, they got those stats differently. Watt/McCaffrey had a handful of MONSTER seasons racking up HUGE stats but lost big chunks of seasons due to injury. Kamara and Jordan have had very consistent probowl caliber seasons with few games lost to injury. That consistency is reflected in the probowls vs. all pro awards the players have received. Kamara/Jordan have more probowls but McCaffrey/Watt have more All Pros. Frankly, at this stage, I would take my boys Kamara/Jordan due to consistency and availability.

Comparisons here:


 
This Kamara/McCaffrey thread was started 1/26/24. At the time Kamara was coming off of one of his worst statistical seasons and McCaffrey coming off his best.

Reading back through this thread there were a lot of posts supporting Kamara from a Saints fan point of view and a lot supporting McCaffrey based on the moment.

Fast forward 8 months and 3 games into a new season. Kamara is off to a hot start and McCaffrey has yet to play a single down.

Kamara has a renewed burst in his game while McCaffrey is suffering from an Achilles that could force him to miss most if not all of the 2024 season.


The OP from 1/26/24
I saw somewhere yesterday (can't remember), where some sports media guy considered Christian McCaffrey the third best running back of all time.

While I think McCaffrey is an exceptional running back, I would not put him at third. (Sanders, Brown, Payton, Dickerson, Tomlinson come to mind first)

My personal opinion, I actually would take prime Alvin Kamara over prime McCaffrey.

But I am also bias towards Saints players.
So got to ask you guys.

Take off your Saints colored glasses and ask yourself, who you would take?

Both came out the same year, except AK went third round. AK won rookie of the Year


Now having observed both careers for several years. Would you still take AK over McCaffrey?

Would AK do as well in San Francisco with that offense as McCaffrey seems to be doing?


Who would you take for your team ???

Page 1 Post, 1/26/24
Kamara is much closer to Cmac than most non-saints fans would probably admit. Career numbers are very similar. Both 5 time probowlers, both 10K yards from Scrimmage, both right at 80 touchdowns.

I don't think either have the body of work to crack the top 10 of all time yet, but I think a case could be made that Kamara is at least on par with Cmac.


Page 2 Post, 1/26/24
While their stats are very similar, their circumstances have been pretty different. CMC was the best player on the Panthers by a mile during his time there while over the same time frame AK was competing for touches with Mark Ingram and Michael Thomas and having Brees as his QB. The last two years have been kind of the opposite with CMC being on a stacked team and AK being our best player without a lot of other options.

So it's kind of hard to judge who has really had the better career. I thought the Panthers were running CMC into the ground just to still finish with 5 wins regardless while AK was making the most of his touches while we were really winning. Yet here we are and the are less than 20 touches apart over their careers.

As a Saints fan, I'll choose AK. But major respect to CMC as well.


Page 6 Post, 1/30/24
Kamara needs to play in an offense with a zone blocking scheme as it plays to his strengths as a slasher and plays to his quickness.

Source of Stats: www.pro-football-reference.com
Career Stats For Both Players For Comparison:
Christian McCaffrey




Rushing
ReceivingScrimmage
SeasonAgeTeamLgpiece of workGGSAttYdsTD1DSucc%LngY/AY/GA/GTgtRecYdsY/RTD1DSucc%LngR/GY/GCtch%Y/TgtTouchY/TchYScmRRTDFmbAVAwards
201721CARNFLRB161011743522245.3403.727.27.3113806518.153750.4375.040.770.85.81975.51086729
201822CARNFLRB1616219109875354.3595.068.613.71241078678.164155.6386.754.286.37.03266.0196513416AP-2
201923CARNFLRB16162871387155746.3844.886.717.914211610058.745859.9287.362.881.77.14035.9239219115PB,AP-1,AP OPoY-3
202024CARNFLRB335922551457.6153.875.019.719171498.81852.6245.749.789.57.8764.9374603
202125CARNFLRB779944212050.5184.563.114.141373439.312165.9325.349.090.28.41365.8785215
2022262TMNFLRB1716244113985948.4494.767.014.4108857418.753652.8495.043.678.76.93295.7188013115PB,AP OPoY-7,AP CPoY-2
202226CARNFLRB668539322049.4494.665.514.243332778.411041.9495.546.276.76.41185.7670305
202226SFONFLRB111015974663947.8384.767.814.565524648.942660.0384.742.280.07.12115.7121010110
202327SFONFLRB16162721459148354.0725.491.217.083675648.473155.4414.235.380.76.83396.0202321318PB,AP-1,AP MVP-3,AP OPoY-1
7 Yrs9184129761855230850.4844.868.014.363050943208.52923255.7495.647.580.86.918065.810505811281

Alvin Kamara

Rushing
ReceivingScrimmage
SeasonAgeTeamLgpiece of workGGSAttYdsTD1DSucc%LngY/AY/GA/GTgtRecYdsY/RTD1DSucc%LngR/GY/GCtch%Y/TgtTouchY/TchYScmRRTDFmbAVAwards
201722NORNFLRB16312072884250.8746.145.57.51008182610.253856.0405.151.681.08.32017.7155413116PB,AP-2,AP ORoY-1
201823NORNFLRB1513194883145758.2494.658.912.9105817098.843152.4425.447.377.16.82755.8159218115PB
201924NORNFLRB14917179753250.9404.756.912.297815336.612844.3415.838.183.55.52525.313306411PB
202025NORNFLRB1510187932165853.5495.062.112.5107837569.153544.9525.550.477.67.12706.3168821114PB,AP-2,AP OPoY-6
202126NORNFLRB131024089844241.3303.769.118.567474399.352043.3313.633.870.16.62874.71337908PB
202227NORNFLRB151322389724052.0274.059.814.977574908.621746.8543.832.774.06.42805.01387448
202328NORNFLRB131218069454248.3173.953.413.886754666.212345.3255.835.887.25.42554.51160608
202429NORNFLRB336128541862.3174.795.020.3111013213.21254.5573.344.090.912.0715.941750
8 Yrs10473137661145833150.9744.458.813.265051543518.42419448.0575.041.879.26.718915.510465821180


Career Rushing Attempts:
1,376 - Kamara
1,297 - McCaffrey

Career Yards Rushing:
6,185 - McCaffrey
6,114 - Kamara

Career Average Yards Per Rushing Attempt:
4.8 - McCaffrey
4.4 - Kamara

Career Number Of Receptions:
515 - Kamara
509 - McCaffrey

Career Regular Season Touchdowns:
82 - Kamara
81 - McCaffrey

Career Total Yards From Scrimmage:
10,505 - McCaffrey
10,465 - Kamara

Career Total All-Purpose Yardage:
11,129 - Kamara
10,725 - McCaffrey

Career Snap Counts:
4,783 - Offense - McCaffrey
4,355 - Offense - Kamara

110 - Special Teams - Kamara
56 - Special Teams - McCaffrey

Career Games Played:
104 - Kamara
91 - McCaffrey

By most all comparable statistics Kamara and McCaffrey are even. However, McCaffrey has put the numbers up in 13 fewer games played. Slight edge to CMAC.

McCaffrey has been used more heavily in the run game throughout his career per game.

In 2018 he had 966 offensive snaps with 218 rushing attempts. 2nd Highest in his Career.
In 2019 he had 1,039 offensive snaps with 287 rushing attempts. Highest in his Career.
In 2023 he had 812 snap counts and 272 rushing attempts. 3rd Highest in his Career

By comparison Kamara hasn't had single season in his career with more than 659 snap counts.

His highest number of rushing attempts was 240 in 2021, averaging 18.5 rushing attempts per game.
His 2nd highest number of rushing attempts was 223 in 2022, averaging 14.9 rushing attempts per game.
Those are the only two seasons that he has had more than 200 rushing attempts.

One thing to be slightly concerned about in 2024 is Kamara is averaging 20.3 Rushing Attempts Per Game through the first 3 games, the highest of his career.

At the pace he is currently on he will have 345 rushing attempts for 1,615 Yards. Both Career Highs. He has not rushed for over 1,000 yards yet in any season.

This is a Heavy Dose of AK41. KK may need to be cautious of wearing him down early in the season. Someone else needs to step up and take some of the load.
 
This Kamara/McCaffrey thread was started 1/26/24. At the time Kamara was coming off of one of his worst statistical seasons and McCaffrey coming off his best.

Reading back through this thread there were a lot of posts supporting Kamara from a Saints fan point of view and a lot supporting McCaffrey based on the moment.

Fast forward 8 months and 3 games into a new season. Kamara is off to a hot start and McCaffrey has yet to play a single down.

Kamara has a renewed burst in his game while McCaffrey is suffering from an Achilles that could force him to miss most if not all of the 2024 season.


The OP from 1/26/24


Page 1 Post, 1/26/24



Page 2 Post, 1/26/24



Page 6 Post, 1/30/24


Source of Stats: www.pro-football-reference.com
Career Stats For Both Players For Comparison:
Christian McCaffrey




Rushing
ReceivingScrimmage
SeasonAgeTeamLgpiece of workGGSAttYdsTD1DSucc%LngY/AY/GA/GTgtRecYdsY/RTD1DSucc%LngR/GY/GCtch%Y/TgtTouchY/TchYScmRRTDFmbAVAwards
201721CARNFLRB161011743522245.3403.727.27.3113806518.153750.4375.040.770.85.81975.51086729
201822CARNFLRB1616219109875354.3595.068.613.71241078678.164155.6386.754.286.37.03266.0196513416AP-2
201923CARNFLRB16162871387155746.3844.886.717.914211610058.745859.9287.362.881.77.14035.9239219115PB,AP-1,AP OPoY-3
202024CARNFLRB335922551457.6153.875.019.719171498.81852.6245.749.789.57.8764.9374603
202125CARNFLRB779944212050.5184.563.114.141373439.312165.9325.349.090.28.41365.8785215
2022262TMNFLRB1716244113985948.4494.767.014.4108857418.753652.8495.043.678.76.93295.7188013115PB,AP OPoY-7,AP CPoY-2
202226CARNFLRB668539322049.4494.665.514.243332778.411041.9495.546.276.76.41185.7670305
202226SFONFLRB111015974663947.8384.767.814.565524648.942660.0384.742.280.07.12115.7121010110
202327SFONFLRB16162721459148354.0725.491.217.083675648.473155.4414.235.380.76.83396.0202321318PB,AP-1,AP MVP-3,AP OPoY-1
7 Yrs9184129761855230850.4844.868.014.363050943208.52923255.7495.647.580.86.918065.810505811281

Alvin Kamara

Rushing
ReceivingScrimmage
SeasonAgeTeamLgpiece of workGGSAttYdsTD1DSucc%LngY/AY/GA/GTgtRecYdsY/RTD1DSucc%LngR/GY/GCtch%Y/TgtTouchY/TchYScmRRTDFmbAVAwards
201722NORNFLRB16312072884250.8746.145.57.51008182610.253856.0405.151.681.08.32017.7155413116PB,AP-2,AP ORoY-1
201823NORNFLRB1513194883145758.2494.658.912.9105817098.843152.4425.447.377.16.82755.8159218115PB
201924NORNFLRB14917179753250.9404.756.912.297815336.612844.3415.838.183.55.52525.313306411PB
202025NORNFLRB1510187932165853.5495.062.112.5107837569.153544.9525.550.477.67.12706.3168821114PB,AP-2,AP OPoY-6
202126NORNFLRB131024089844241.3303.769.118.567474399.352043.3313.633.870.16.62874.71337908PB
202227NORNFLRB151322389724052.0274.059.814.977574908.621746.8543.832.774.06.42805.01387448
202328NORNFLRB131218069454248.3173.953.413.886754666.212345.3255.835.887.25.42554.51160608
202429NORNFLRB336128541862.3174.795.020.3111013213.21254.5573.344.090.912.0715.941750
8 Yrs10473137661145833150.9744.458.813.265051543518.42419448.0575.041.879.26.718915.510465821180


Career Rushing Attempts:
1,376 - Kamara
1,297 - McCaffrey

Career Yards Rushing:
6,185 - McCaffrey
6,114 - Kamara

Career Average Yards Per Rushing Attempt:
4.8 - McCaffrey
4.4 - Kamara

Career Number Of Receptions:
515 - Kamara
509 - McCaffrey

Career Regular Season Touchdowns:
82 - Kamara
81 - McCaffrey

Career Total Yards From Scrimmage:
10,505 - McCaffrey
10,465 - Kamara

Career Total All-Purpose Yardage:
11,129 - Kamara
10,725 - McCaffrey

Career Snap Counts:
4,783 - Offense - McCaffrey
4,355 - Offense - Kamara

110 - Special Teams - Kamara
56 - Special Teams - McCaffrey

Career Games Played:
104 - Kamara
91 - McCaffrey

By most all comparable statistics Kamara and McCaffrey are even. However, McCaffrey has put the numbers up in 13 fewer games played. Slight edge to CMAC.

McCaffrey has been used more heavily in the run game throughout his career per game.

In 2018 he had 966 offensive snaps with 218 rushing attempts. 2nd Highest in his Career.
In 2019 he had 1,039 offensive snaps with 287 rushing attempts. Highest in his Career.
In 2023 he had 812 snap counts and 272 rushing attempts. 3rd Highest in his Career

By comparison Kamara hasn't had single season in his career with more than 659 snap counts.

His highest number of rushing attempts was 240 in 2021, averaging 18.5 rushing attempts per game.
His 2nd highest number of rushing attempts was 223 in 2022, averaging 14.9 rushing attempts per game.
Those are the only two seasons that he has had more than 200 rushing attempts.

One thing to be slightly concerned about in 2024 is Kamara is averaging 20.3 Rushing Attempts Per Game through the first 3 games, the highest of his career.

At the pace he is currently on he will have 345 rushing attempts for 1,615 Yards. Both Career Highs. He has not rushed for over 1,000 yards yet in any season.

This is a Heavy Dose of AK41. KK may need to be cautious of wearing him down early in the season. Someone else needs to step up and take some of the load.

Is there a cliff notes version to this?
 
I reckon they're pretty even. Depending on my offense. If I wanted pure speed, I might opt for CMC. If I wanted someone, who seemed to absorb tackles and move around the field like a strange sea creature from Spongebob, I'd go AK. All up they do similar things well and both have had dominating games. CMC is in the better position now, but AK was when his career started -- in that way their careers are kind of opposites.
 
Yeah top 3 ??? I don't think so


Hell, I saw where Skip Bayless said Barry Sanders was overrated,,
Now I know he's on TV meant to stir the pot, but that's just a stupid statement right there.
Yep and it cost him his job. Statements like those
 
This Kamara/McCaffrey thread was started 1/26/24. At the time Kamara was coming off of one of his worst statistical seasons and McCaffrey coming off his best.

Reading back through this thread there were a lot of posts supporting Kamara from a Saints fan point of view and a lot supporting McCaffrey based on the moment.

Fast forward 8 months and 3 games into a new season. Kamara is off to a hot start and McCaffrey has yet to play a single down.

Kamara has a renewed burst in his game while McCaffrey is suffering from an Achilles that could force him to miss most if not all of the 2024 season.


The OP from 1/26/24


Page 1 Post, 1/26/24



Page 2 Post, 1/26/24



Page 6 Post, 1/30/24



Source of Stats: www.pro-football-reference.com
Career Stats For Both Players For Comparison:
Christian McCaffrey




Rushing
ReceivingScrimmage
SeasonAgeTeamLgpiece of workGGSAttYdsTD1DSucc%LngY/AY/GA/GTgtRecYdsY/RTD1DSucc%LngR/GY/GCtch%Y/TgtTouchY/TchYScmRRTDFmbAVAwards
201721CARNFLRB161011743522245.3403.727.27.3113806518.153750.4375.040.770.85.81975.51086729
201822CARNFLRB1616219109875354.3595.068.613.71241078678.164155.6386.754.286.37.03266.0196513416AP-2
201923CARNFLRB16162871387155746.3844.886.717.914211610058.745859.9287.362.881.77.14035.9239219115PB,AP-1,AP OPoY-3
202024CARNFLRB335922551457.6153.875.019.719171498.81852.6245.749.789.57.8764.9374603
202125CARNFLRB779944212050.5184.563.114.141373439.312165.9325.349.090.28.41365.8785215
2022262TMNFLRB1716244113985948.4494.767.014.4108857418.753652.8495.043.678.76.93295.7188013115PB,AP OPoY-7,AP CPoY-2
202226CARNFLRB668539322049.4494.665.514.243332778.411041.9495.546.276.76.41185.7670305
202226SFONFLRB111015974663947.8384.767.814.565524648.942660.0384.742.280.07.12115.7121010110
202327SFONFLRB16162721459148354.0725.491.217.083675648.473155.4414.235.380.76.83396.0202321318PB,AP-1,AP MVP-3,AP OPoY-1
7 Yrs9184129761855230850.4844.868.014.363050943208.52923255.7495.647.580.86.918065.810505811281

Alvin Kamara

Rushing
ReceivingScrimmage
SeasonAgeTeamLgpiece of workGGSAttYdsTD1DSucc%LngY/AY/GA/GTgtRecYdsY/RTD1DSucc%LngR/GY/GCtch%Y/TgtTouchY/TchYScmRRTDFmbAVAwards
201722NORNFLRB16312072884250.8746.145.57.51008182610.253856.0405.151.681.08.32017.7155413116PB,AP-2,AP ORoY-1
201823NORNFLRB1513194883145758.2494.658.912.9105817098.843152.4425.447.377.16.82755.8159218115PB
201924NORNFLRB14917179753250.9404.756.912.297815336.612844.3415.838.183.55.52525.313306411PB
202025NORNFLRB1510187932165853.5495.062.112.5107837569.153544.9525.550.477.67.12706.3168821114PB,AP-2,AP OPoY-6
202126NORNFLRB131024089844241.3303.769.118.567474399.352043.3313.633.870.16.62874.71337908PB
202227NORNFLRB151322389724052.0274.059.814.977574908.621746.8543.832.774.06.42805.01387448
202328NORNFLRB131218069454248.3173.953.413.886754666.212345.3255.835.887.25.42554.51160608
202429NORNFLRB336128541862.3174.795.020.3111013213.21254.5573.344.090.912.0715.941750
8 Yrs10473137661145833150.9744.458.813.265051543518.42419448.0575.041.879.26.718915.510465821180


Career Rushing Attempts:
1,376 - Kamara
1,297 - McCaffrey

Career Yards Rushing:
6,185 - McCaffrey
6,114 - Kamara

Career Average Yards Per Rushing Attempt:
4.8 - McCaffrey
4.4 - Kamara

Career Number Of Receptions:
515 - Kamara
509 - McCaffrey

Career Regular Season Touchdowns:
82 - Kamara
81 - McCaffrey

Career Total Yards From Scrimmage:
10,505 - McCaffrey
10,465 - Kamara

Career Total All-Purpose Yardage:
11,129 - Kamara
10,725 - McCaffrey

Career Snap Counts:
4,783 - Offense - McCaffrey
4,355 - Offense - Kamara

110 - Special Teams - Kamara
56 - Special Teams - McCaffrey

Career Games Played:
104 - Kamara
91 - McCaffrey

By most all comparable statistics Kamara and McCaffrey are even. However, McCaffrey has put the numbers up in 13 fewer games played. Slight edge to CMAC.

McCaffrey has been used more heavily in the run game throughout his career per game.

In 2018 he had 966 offensive snaps with 218 rushing attempts. 2nd Highest in his Career.
In 2019 he had 1,039 offensive snaps with 287 rushing attempts. Highest in his Career.
In 2023 he had 812 snap counts and 272 rushing attempts. 3rd Highest in his Career

By comparison Kamara hasn't had single season in his career with more than 659 snap counts.

His highest number of rushing attempts was 240 in 2021, averaging 18.5 rushing attempts per game.
His 2nd highest number of rushing attempts was 223 in 2022, averaging 14.9 rushing attempts per game.
Those are the only two seasons that he has had more than 200 rushing attempts.

One thing to be slightly concerned about in 2024 is Kamara is averaging 20.3 Rushing Attempts Per Game through the first 3 games, the highest of his career.

At the pace he is currently on he will have 345 rushing attempts for 1,615 Yards. Both Career Highs. He has not rushed for over 1,000 yards yet in any season.

This is a Heavy Dose of AK41. KK may need to be cautious of wearing him down early in the season. Someone else needs to step up and take some of the load.
Unfortunately there is no one to take the load.
 
Unfortunately there is no one to take the load.
Yeah I get that. Kamara has been pulling the wagon mostly himself through the 1st 3 games.

Unfortunately Taysom was out last week. Hopefully he can help share the load.

Williams still doesn't look like he can be a relief back with more than a touch or two.

Maybe Mims can make a few plays. The Saints can't get a healthy Kendre Miller back soon enough. Hopefully he's good to go next week and has fresh legs and a big desire to prove something.
 

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