{2023 Thread Bumped} Underhill Giving No Quarter to Nick Wright (1 Viewer)

[El Caliente]

The salary cap, or more, how we handle the salary cap, isn’t a problem as long as guys like Vonn Bell, T-Rex, and Marcus Williams aren’t in the cards.

 

[NatureBoy]

And neither can any team no matter what their cap is, And you don't need to

So depth isn't imporetant. I guess when you don't have injury problems it's not. Thats never happened to us, right?

 

[Rouxble]

Well, same can be said for vice versa. The only thing that matters is whether our teams have been historically competitive, and in terms of overall w/l record the last 15 years, the Saints are 4th in the league behind only the Pats, Steelers and Packers.

It's really simple, a winning strategy that works is what they should be and are doing.

The only problem with that analysis is that we’ve been more all in post Brees than we ever were with Brees, and we all know most of our wins came with Brees. Prior to 2020, the Saints never spent more than 60% of their cash on bonuses. We’ve done it four years in a row.

In reality, Loomis would always manage the cap back to normal the year after a big signing so he would have the flexibility to manage the roster without the limitations of excessive dead money. We’re trapped to where we can’t do that now.

So we laugh when another team signs our 30yo DT, when we just gave new signing bonuses to our 34yo DE, 34yo LB, 33yo TE, and 31yo S which ties our cap to those players even longer.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Yeah, I agree with Underhill as well.

C'mon, stop with sidebar "my boy, CovSaints and I get it but the others around here, don't."

To Nick Wright's point, yeah, he was right about the Loomis method once and it took a global pandemic to expose the danger of the that strategy. Yes, we are doing some catchup from that 2020 anomaly, but Loomis has been doing this method for 17 years and still finds ways to acquire FA players. And Loomis had admitted he's trying to work to the middle. That remains to be seen, but he can't do it immediately. Just like he can't just go into "tank mode" like some want even if he wanted to. So Nick Wright is partially correct in his stance, but he's overstating it and won't back down or ever admit to it.

Byrd was a huge misfire, but we signed him to a mega contract with less than a mil in cap space. This cap hell people talk about is a myth.

 

[DaveXA]

Thats a fair point but I don't think we've had a Super Bowl leve team since we "lost" to the Rams. There has been a regression in talent and we are paying for it now.

Well, that's debatable. I think the talent is there. The injuries and Covid hurt the Saints, arguably more than most teams. I think talent ebbs and flows and is cyclical to some degree. I don't buy that the cap is handicapping Loomis all that much. It might cause issues with timing a particular signing, but by and large we get the available players we want.

 

[Rouxble]

So depth isn't imporetant. I guess when you don't have injury problems it's not. Thats never happened to us, right?

That’s an important point that gets brought up by Kirwan on NFL radio. He is a former GM, coach, and team president, so he’s not some talking head like Wright that’s out to get clicks.

 

[DaveXA]

Byrd was a huge misfire, but we signed him to a mega contract with less than a mil in cap space. This cap hell people talk about is a myth.

Yep, it's a talent picking issue more than a salary cap issue. Always has been.

 

[NatureBoy]

Well, that's debatable. I think the talent is there. The injuries and Covid hurt the Saints, arguably more than most teams. I think talent ebbs and flows and is cyclical to some degree. I don't buy that the cap is handicapping Loomis all that much. It might cause issues with timing a particular signing, but by and large we get the available players we want.

Last four seasons. 13-3, 12-4, 9-8, 7-10. No playoffs since 12-4. I think it's fair to call that regression.

Injuries matter. The deeper teams can handle it better than the ones who can't. Personnel matters all the way through 53 and beyond.

 

[DaveXA]

That’s an important point that gets brought up by Kirwan on NFL radio. He is a former GM, coach, and team president, so he’s not some talking head like Wright that’s out to get clicks.

Sure, but those are the chances you take. It usually works. But with Covid and the outsized IR list we've had over the last couple of years, it was the worst it could get for the strategy Loomis uses. Yet, we're getting closer to the other side of it and will be back to business as usual probably in the next year or two. Just feel like some just aren't willing to wait and let Loomis do his thing.

And all teams make decisions about how much depth they want. NBA teams do this every season. They have to make decisions on how deep into the bench they go with their rotations, not only in the regular season, but also in the playoffs when the rotation usually shortened quite a bit.

NFL teams will decide how much money goes to their core players and how much to the rest.

 

[DaveXA]

Last four seasons. 13-3, 12-4, 9-8, 7-10. No playoffs since 12-4. I think it's fair to call that regression.

Injuries matter. The deeper teams can handle it better than the ones who can't. Personnel matters all the way through 53 and beyond.

Jmo but the drop-off has had more to do with Brees retiring, MT being MIA and of course with last season Payton leaving. So I'd argue that has more to do with change of leadership than change in talent, although there's some of both.

I really don't think the salary cap and how it's been managed has all that much to do with it.

 

[Rouxble]

NFL teams will decide how much money goes to their core players and how much to the rest.

And teams with more cap space and/or less dead money tied up in old contracts have more flexibility to make those choices.

 

[DSnfla]

Last four seasons. 13-3, 12-4, 9-8, 7-10. No playoffs since 12-4. I think it's fair to call that regression.

Injuries matter. The deeper teams can handle it better than the ones who can't. Personnel matters all the way through 53 and beyond.

Not just injuries but historic amounts of injuries for 2 yrs in a row. No one's cap space could have cured that.

 

[NatureBoy]

Jmo but the drop-off has had more to do with Brees retiring, MT being MIA and of course with last season Payton leaving. So I'd argue that has more to do with change of leadership than change in talent, although there's some of both.

I really don't think the salary cap and how it's been managed has all that much to do with it.

No doubt those players being hurt and key personnel leaving hurt them. I'll agree with that 100%. If fan's could see it coming, so could they. Only the Sean departure was a surprise. My question is why didn't they do something about it? I'm not arguing against their strategy. I may not agree with it, but that doesn't matter. I don't care if they resigned Tuttle and DO or not. I have one simple point. Their management of the cap is a factor. To deny it would be disingenuious. At least for me. It is what it is.

 

[DaveXA]

And teams with more cap space and/or less dead money tied up in old contracts have more flexibility to make those choices.

And, they still end up with losing records as much as they win. I'll take Loomis' track record every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[NatureBoy]

Not just injuries but historic amounts of injuries for 2 yrs in a row. No one's cap space could have cured that.

And we're the only team that happened to, right?