3-4 Under Front (Position Analysis) (1 Viewer)

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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So as you all heard via SP we will make the transition to the 3-4 using under concepts. What you see above is an illustration of the under front.

The front 3 consist of your End, Nose, Tackles

LB's are your Jack Will Mike and Sam

On the 3-4 Switch and Multiple Fronts - Shakin The Southland


A few interesting quotes i took from this

Saban's system is interesting because though his base is a 30 front, he is using both 1-gap and 2-gap principles. Most of his fronts are 1-gapped, and particularly when they adjust to spread sets. Only a few of their 3-4 fronts are actually 2-gapped, so he doesn't have to spend tremendous time repping read techniques. To play these fronts you require better WLB play because now he's doing many of the same things that MIKE is doing in the 4-3. He's not protected as often by the 3-technique from blockers.
The above shows why Vilma is being kept around. Its that simple. He is still our best bet@ that WLB position.

A Heavy-5 technique is the actual term for what the SDE is doing in the 4-3, and it just means his job is to squeeze any veering OT. Technically this front is 2-gapped and the DEs can go either way, B or C, but often the WDE goes inside with Jack outside in the C-gap.
The main reason Cam Jordan is projected to make a seamless transition.

Because its not a true TNT front and its more of a ENT front Cam(by my guess) will be moved to the Right side. Which is the strong side of the front. He will continue to play 5tech @ RDE which as i pointed out above is essentially the same thing as SDE in the 4-3

But the true advantage to the 3-4 vs the 4-3 is in blitz angles, which is the subject of another post entirely.
Which has been my cry for a 3-4 for the longest. It just flat out gives guys better angles.



Now using the above illustration im going to take a direct stab@ where guys fit and possible wholes we need to fill. This should give us a realistic view into FA/Draft



NT - Bunkley and Hicks have this on lock. I remember reading that someone said we were interested in Datone Jones(more on that later)and that we felt like we had our Nose Tackles in house already. If thats so then it points@ the above. Your 1/2 punch @ NT are those two guys. Hicks can play it by himself but now you have depth.

RDE - Cam Jordan ?? This position is the only position that 2gaps while everyone else 1 gaps. Hicks could back up this position as well since another 2 gapper isn't really on the roster yet.


LDT(3tech`) Tyrunn Walker/Tom Johnson/Will Smith to an extent. To an extent this guy isn't on the roster. Had Ellis ever been an adequate 3tech we could have penciled him in there. This is where i think we should go 1st in the draft as there are several guys who can fill this role and could be available

*Shariff Floyd
*Datone Jone
*Sheldon Richardson


ROLB(Jack) Junior G, ???? Outside of Galette we have no one here. This must be addressed. Id much rather go to FA here to give us some leeway with the draft. So Victor Butler would be my choice. HE knows Ryans scheme and could play either OLB position.

RILB(Will) Jon Vilma/Chris Chamberlain - As of right now. This is why i think the saints were seen eyeing Zavier Gooden. You generally want to have 3 guys here so i think this position gets addressed in the Draft.

LILB(Mike) Curtis Lofton/Will Herriing - Lofton is basically locked in as the starter so i don't think there is a need to address this position via the draft. If herring isn't kept then u could probably insert a veteran here.

LOLB(Sam) Hawthorne/Martez Wilson - This could change if Hawthorne isn't retained. However the SOLB position in the 3-4 under front is similar to the SOLB position in the 4-3 front. Similar to what Wilson was asked to do his first year. Its probably just me but Tez is capable of dropping in coverage. I don't see why he shouldn't be able to start here but if not and he was relegated to 3rd down duties then Hawthorne would get the two down nod.


Thats basically it.


Either way our two main needs in the front 7 are LDT and OLB but i think LDT is the bigger need right now. Much like if we would have stayed in a 4-3 front the 3tech would have been a position of need going into the draft. Especially with Ellis most likely walking.

One of the main points of switching to a 3-4 is because u can find rush LB's later in the draft..thus making them more easy to replace and cheaper to retain.



Just to take a shot@ what our draft board should look like as far as defense

DT
OLB
CB
S

That could shift depending on various factors but as of right now I think thats where we "should" stand.



My main point is though the OLB's in a 3-4 get all the attention..the front 3 are still your most important pieces. In fact they become that much more important since its only 3 of them. This is one of the reasons Houston went the JJ Watt first rather than OLB. So don't be surprised if we draft a tackle first then bounce back to OLB.
 

meily

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I think Hicks will play opposite Jordan....essentially becoming the 3tech if this was a 4-3, with Galette rushing from the same side Hicks is getting double teamed ojni think we can get a lot if pressure off that side and may help Jordan on the other end.

But OLB, NT and probably Safety will be targets on defense...how many Linebackers we target is another story.
 

Blessedog

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Good post.

I also hope we keep Hicks opposite Jordan and bring in a NT like Franklin or maybe draft one like Geathers.
 
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ELLIASJWILLIAMS

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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I think Hicks will play opposite Jordan....essentially becoming the 3tech if this was a 4-3, with Galette rushing from the same side Hicks is getting double teamed ojni think we can get a lot if pressure off that side and may help Jordan on the other end.
Akiem Hicks - YouTube


CHeck that video...hicks is playing not the 5 tech, not the 3tech but the shaded 1 tech in basically all of those.


The NT in the 3-4 under plays the shaded 1tech....easy fit if you ask me.


If you wanted to play the 2gap then yeah hicks would be an excellent RDT. Just my opinion though.




See i like how Hicks finds the ball in that video. Playing the NT would allow him to flow either left or right to chase down ballcarriers depending on where the play goes. Also as i mentioned since hes playing the shaded 1 tech rather than the 0 he isn't being asked to be a TRUE NT. He be basically being asked to do the same thing he was doing in relief of Bunkley last year.

The 3-4 under is all about having guys to do the same thing...but just changing their positions. Ie Vilma to WLB in the 1-gap 3-4 is essentially the MLB in a 4-3.

Hicks as i said playing the NT in the 3-4 under would be the same thing as playing the NT in the 4-3.
 

kewinn89

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Good job.. But the way I see it
RE-Hicks
NT-Bunkley
LE-Jordan
ROLB-Galette
MLB-Lofton
MLB-Hawthrone
LOLB-Wilson
 

meily

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Akiem Hicks - YouTube


CHeck that video...hicks is playing not the 5 tech, not the 3tech but the shaded 1 tech in basically all of those.


The NT in the 3-4 under plays the shaded 1tech....easy fit if you ask me.


If you wanted to play the 2gap then yeah hicks would be an excellent RDT. Just my opinion though.
Just think its a stronger front with Hicks/Bunkley/Jordan.....I think if Smith is retained you could see Hicks backing up both spots...but to keep those linebackers clean and helping set the edge for Galette or whoever is the Jack Linebacker looks to be the better lineup to do that...keep bunkley at NT and draft a 6'3 320lb NT...its a target position anyway.
 
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ELLIASJWILLIAMS

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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Good stuff. What about nickel alignments?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Nickel 2-4-5 is what we will probaly run..but i have a problem with it. Its week up the middle against things like Draw plays because u have your two DE's on the inside and your two LB's on the outside. Its kind of light up front.


Id prefer a 3-3-5 with the WIll being the designated rusher. Still a 4 man front but you are keeping the 3down lineman ENT and your primary rusher is the WOLB.


Either way i think our Nickel should consist of our D-lineman having their hand in the ground opposed to two standing up. This way we can still get Galette on the field if he doesn't take well to being a stand up rusher.
 
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ELLIASJWILLIAMS

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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Just think its a stronger front with Hicks/Bunkley/Jordan.....I think if Smith is retained you could see Hicks backing up both spots...but to keep those linebackers clean and helping set the edge for Galette or whoever is the Jack Linebacker looks to be the better lineup to do that...keep bunkley at NT and draft a 6'3 320lb NT...its a target position anyway.

See but you have to think about it this way. The weakside of the 3-4 under IS technically the strong side. Your NT is shaded over the left shoulder of the center whle the DE is 2gapping.

That WILB is going to be your cleanest guy in this front. Cam/Hicks or Cam/Bunkley covering up Jonathan Vilma and Galette on the strong side is perfect.

This is why i say the LDT isn't on the roster yet "technically"



Again its all about projecting and its about making the projection as easy as possible.


Projecting Cam Jordan into playing the 5tech since its the same as the LDE isn't hard

Projecting Hicks/Bunkely to play the NT isn't hard because its the exact same thing they were doing in the 4-3. Shaded Nose

The 3 tech is the position we will need. I always see Cali mention Hicks as a Combo DT meaning he could play either or...but id rather him in rotation@ the position he knows (shaded NT) and rotation@ (RDE) since this requires 2gapping which is another thing he can do.
 

meily

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Nickel 2-4-5 is what we will probaly run..but i have a problem with it. Its week up the middle against things like Draw plays because u have your two DE's on the inside and your two LB's on the outside. Its kind of light up front.


Id prefer a 3-3-5 with the WIll being the designated rusher. Still a 4 man front but you are keeping the 3down lineman ENT and your primary rusher is the WOLB.


Either way i think our Nickel should consist of our D-lineman having their hand in the ground opposed to two standing up. This way we can still get Galette on the field if he doesn't take well to being a stand up rusher.
That's why I think Wilson will be the SOLB...in our dime packages 2-4-5 would be Galette (6'2 258) and Wilson 6'4 250lbs on the edges and Hicks 6'5 325 and Jordan 6'4 280lbs inside...its possible to run this dime package successful and these are the players coach Payton wanted utilized.
 
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ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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That's why I think Wilson will be the SOLB...in our dime packages 2-4-5 would be Galette (6'2 258) and Wilson 6'4 250lbs on the edges and Hicks 6'5 325 and Jordan 6'4 280lbs inside...its possible to run this dime package successful and these are the players coach Payton wanted utilized.

YEah that front is possible even if Hicks is your backup NT in your base sets.

In what you mentioned above. Galette and Wilson would be your ends and HIcks would play NT(1tech) and Jordan would play 3tech. Still works out with HIcks playing the shaded nose.


So with my above thoughts...hicks would still see playing time in Nickel/D


I agree that we will probably go 2-4-5 because it keeps Galette and Wilson in on nickel...i just prefer the 3-3-5 will alignment because of the girth. It takes a speed rusher off but it still allows you to be touch against the run if need be. Where as in the 2-4-5 u get that extra speed rusher but your a bit weaker up the middle..(on paper) I wouldn't call Hicks/Jordan weak up the middle.
 

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So as you all heard via SP we will make the transition to the 3-4 using under concepts. What you see above is an illustration of the under front.

The front 3 consist of your End, Nose, Tackles

LB's are your Jack Will Mike and Sam

On the 3-4 Switch and Multiple Fronts - Shakin The Southland


A few interesting quotes i took from this



The above shows why Vilma is being kept around. Its that simple. He is still our best bet@ that WLB position.



The main reason Cam Jordan is projected to make a seamless transition.

Because its not a true TNT front and its more of a ENT front Cam(by my guess) will be moved to the Right side. Which is the strong side of the front. He will continue to play 5tech @ RDE which as i pointed out above is essentially the same thing as SDE in the 4-3



Which has been my cry for a 3-4 for the longest. It just flat out gives guys better angles.



Now using the above illustration im going to take a direct stab@ where guys fit and possible wholes we need to fill. This should give us a realistic view into FA/Draft



NT - Bunkley and Hicks have this on lock. I remember reading that someone said we were interested in Datone Jones(more on that later)and that we felt like we had our Nose Tackles in house already. If thats so then it points@ the above. Your 1/2 punch @ NT are those two guys. Hicks can play it by himself but now you have depth.

RDE - Cam Jordan ?? This position is the only position that 2gaps while everyone else 1 gaps. Hicks could back up this position as well since another 2 gapper isn't really on the roster yet.


LDT(3tech`) Tyrunn Walker/Tom Johnson/Will Smith to an extent. To an extent this guy isn't on the roster. Had Ellis ever been an adequate 3tech we could have penciled him in there. This is where i think we should go 1st in the draft as there are several guys who can fill this role and could be available

*Shariff Floyd
*Datone Jone
*Sheldon Richardson


ROLB(Jack) Junior G, ???? Outside of Galette we have no one here. This must be addressed. Id much rather go to FA here to give us some leeway with the draft. So Victor Butler would be my choice. HE knows Ryans scheme and could play either OLB position.

RILB(Will) Jon Vilma/Chris Chamberlain - As of right now. This is why i think the saints were seen eyeing Zavier Gooden. You generally want to have 3 guys here so i think this position gets addressed in the Draft.

LILB(Mike) Curtis Lofton/Will Herriing - Lofton is basically locked in as the starter so i don't think there is a need to address this position via the draft. If herring isn't kept then u could probably insert a veteran here.

LOLB(Sam) Hawthorne/Martez Wilson - This could change if Hawthorne isn't retained. However the SOLB position in the 3-4 under front is similar to the SOLB position in the 4-3 front. Similar to what Wilson was asked to do his first year. Its probably just me but Tez is capable of dropping in coverage. I don't see why he shouldn't be able to start here but if not and he was relegated to 3rd down duties then Hawthorne would get the two down nod.


Thats basically it.


Either way our two main needs in the front 7 are LDT and OLB but i think LDT is the bigger need right now. Much like if we would have stayed in a 4-3 front the 3tech would have been a position of need going into the draft. Especially with Ellis most likely walking.

One of the main points of switching to a 3-4 is because u can find rush LB's later in the draft..thus making them more easy to replace and cheaper to retain.



Just to take a shot@ what our draft board should look like as far as defense

DT
OLB
CB
S

That could shift depending on various factors but as of right now I think thats where we "should" stand.



My main point is though the OLB's in a 3-4 get all the attention..the front 3 are still your most important pieces. In fact they become that much more important since its only 3 of them. This is one of the reasons Houston went the JJ Watt first rather than OLB. So don't be surprised if we draft a tackle first then bounce back to OLB.
But didn't Vilma struggle in New York in their 3-4?
 

saintmike23

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The only problem here is that in Rob Ryan's scheme the WILB blitzes 50% of the time. I can't see Vilma being effective at this.
 

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