As the Seas Around Them Rise, Louisiana Fisherman Deny Climate Change (1 Viewer)

[bclemms]

here is where you fall in to your own trap
the "Democratic Party" as it exists now, is still pretty 'neo-liberaKArl Rove'l - essentially pro-corporate with socially liberal positions
it's quite the stretch to say the Party has a anti-industrial position
a LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE position would want to check dinosaur fuel growth/development for clean power but as you and all saw when Hillary beat Bernie - the progressive wing does not control the party

there isn't a Roger Ailes+Karl Rove analogy on the Left/Dems

plus let's be entirely clear, there aren't "sides" in this debate - there is verifiable data and there is denial of verifiable data
just like evolution, there aren't "sides" - there is hypothesis based on verifiable date and there is mythology
it's not even apples and oranges. it's apples and Farmville

You are hearing what you want to hear and what you think I'm saying instead of what I'm actually saying.

I haven't at any point questioned whether climate change is real. Not once. I have always said climate change is real. I've always taken the position that at least part of climate change is man made. I do question just how much but that has absolutely nothing to do with the article or my point.

If you are wanting to look at fact based stuff in relation to the La wetlands, I posted plenty including a fact sheet from the USGS that has spent decades researching the causes of wetland erosion. They include sinking land, oil companies making canals, powerful hurricanes, taming and rerouting the Ms river, levee systems and rising sea levels.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

You are hearing what you want to hear and what you think I'm saying instead of what I'm actually saying.

I haven't at any point questioned whether climate change is real. Not once. I have always said climate change is real. I've always taken the position that at least part of climate change is man made. I do question just how much but that has absolutely nothing to do with the article or my point.

If you are wanting to look at fact based stuff in relation to the La wetlands, I posted plenty including a fact sheet from the USGS that has spent decades researching the causes of wetland erosion. They include sinking land, oil companies making canals, powerful hurricanes, taming and rerouting the Ms river, levee systems and rising sea levels.

as I remember, and i am willing to be corrected, your "acknowledgement is usually fairly hedged and you don't see much reason for drastic action to combat climate change"

when I taught at Tulane in the early 2000s, i worked closely with the Center for Bio-Environmental Research - we did a lot of public outreach/advocacy about not only coastal erosion but also about things like the types of lubricant that container ships use which causes all sorts of environmental damage when it leeches off the ships and settles in the river floor

i recognize fully that this needs to be a multi-pronged attack and that supporting any prong helps the others

 

[bclemms]

as I remember, and i am willing to be corrected, your "acknowledgement is usually fairly hedged and you don't see much reason for drastic action to combat climate change"

when I taught at Tulane in the early 2000s, i worked closely with the Center for Bio-Environmental Research - we did a lot of public outreach/advocacy about not only coastal erosion but also about things like the types of lubricant that container ships use which causes all sorts of environmental damage when it leeches off the ships and settles in the river floor

i recognize fully that this needs to be a multi-pronged attack and that supporting any prong helps the others

No, it's quite the opposite.

I believe we should do everything we can within reason to clean up the environment because worst case scenario is we are living in a cleaner environment.

What I don't believe we should do is force US companies to these very high standards then allow consumers to go around all of these standards and by the far cheaper import items made around the globe from companies that do not have to honor those standards. Force the rest of the world to becoming green through import tariffs. It's not fair to our economy, it's not fair to American workers, it's not fair to American companies and it's not fair to anyone to allow the rest of the world to pollute us into extinction.

In regards to the marshes and wetlands in South La, man made climate change is damn near a non-issue because by the time the sea level rises enough to make a drastic impact we wont have any wetlands left. Another 20 years and we'll be back in the 40 year peak hurricane cycle. At that point, it'll just take one or two more big hurricanes and it'll finish it off. The more wetlands we lose, the more prone they are to erosion, the faster they will disappear.

I honestly don't see a way to fix it. knocking down the levee systems is probably the easiest route but to do that half of south La would have to ****. We could reroute the Ms every 50 or so years and let it distribute silt all over the place but that would be an infrastructure nightmare. We could spend trillions to rebuild the wetlands.

Truth is, the battle was probably lost after the last island hurricane of 1856 when it split the barrier island in two and left several places just a few meters across. Those barrier islands were a huge natural barrier protecting the wetlands. If we had that now, we could probably fix it all pretty easily but we don't.

Legislation hasn't worked, laws were passed that would force oil companies to fix the canals and be held liable but any attempt to hold them liable ran into a giant wall of corruption. Not too long ago, Bobby Jindal sold out Louisiana and helped pass legislation making it almost impossible to hold oil companies accountable leaving us the only hope of a Supreme Court decision to overturn.

Many politicians have come and gone promising real action to fix the wetlands but they quickly realized it was way too expensive to turn down massive amounts of bribe money and failed to deliver on those promises.

It's the perfect storm (pun somewhat intended) between nature taking what it wants, people destroying what they want and politicians selling out people for money. It's three things Louisiana has struggled stopping most all rolled into one. So, we can worry about a global problem that will destroy what is left of the wetlands many years from now or we can fix the problems in our own backyard that we haven't been able to fix for many years. I honestly don't know if the latter is worth the investment. I honestly don't know how long it will take the former to take hold to even begin to reverse impacts. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

As for my opinions on Climate Change, I've laid it all out. Pretty sure I've covered just about every aspect of it with great detail. Have even illustrated a plan that would go a long way to help fix man's part of it in a short amount of time. If you feel like reading all of it, it can be found in this thread. It's a long read though.
http://saintsreport.com/forums/f3/theoretical-applied-climatology-344630/index5.html#.WPxNpNIrKUk

 

[Jeff Miller]

I can't speak to what degree, but it seems to me all those canals cut into the wetlands for the oil industry has to be a significant contributing factor.

 

[Hoodoo]

way, way too pat an answer
clean energy subsidies vs fossil kick backs are hard to compare (mostly b/c the kickbacks are well hidden) but if we want a snap shot of subsidies over time

I'd be interested in seeing a chart for the past 10-20 years. Considering that one only shows 1918-2009 it's not surprising at all that the vast majority has gone to fossil fuels.

 

[Hoodoo]

I laugh inside every time my deep south climate change denying relatives call and complain about the heat. Every year they sound a little more down about it, a little more desperate to escape it, and talk about how much hotter it is now.

Republican Projection Syndrome at it's finest. The actual conspiracy is being perpetrated by the fossil fuel industry, in collusion with the GOP. That is where all the money is, untold amounts of it, being protected with lies, conspiracy and collusion.

But no, it's definitely a worldwide conspiracy by green energy companies, unrelated scientists from every country, in every research facility in the world, and democrats.

Republicans here in NC banned even studying rising water levels on the coast. That's how bald faced and corrupt they are. Then all their programmed lackeys come to the internet and start obfuscating, talking about conspiracy theories and corrupt green energy startups!

lol

Exactly the same pattern with other issues. Like all my racist relatives using the n word their entire lives, glancing sideways with squinted eyes at every black person they meet, then turning around in a political discussion and trying to act like its all about the philosophy of states rights, or taxation, or anything other than their racism and complete disdain for the less fortunate. Like you're supposed to take what they say in a vacuum.

Doesn't work like that.

Obvious stereotyping aside, the only Southerners that I ever hear complaining about the heat are the one's who spend way too much time in the A/C. It was hotter than hell here when I was a kid and it still is. If you're a Southerner, you learn to deal with it or you stay inside. Come here in July, you'll find more than your fair share of folks enjoying the heat.