Brees when targeting (1 Viewer)

[BreesusSaves]

Week 2
Fleener and Coleman
4/12 for 44 yards, 3.6 ypa, 44 passer rating

Rest of team
27/33, 219 yards, 1 TD, 0int, 104.4 passer rating


Better yet, when Brees targeted the top 3 WR's.
16/22, 178 yards, 1 TD, 0 int, 111.6 QB rating


For the season
Fleener- 3/12, 33 yards, 2.75 yards per attempt, 44.4 passer rating (would be worst in NFL by massive stretch)

Top 3 receivers
37/46, 80.4%, 11.94 ypa, 551 yards, 4 TD, 0 int, 145.6 passer rating (Would be best in NFL by massive stretch)

If you want to really .... just look at the salary per year of Fleener vs Cooks, Snead, and Thomas

 

[blackadder]

If you want to really .... just look at the salary per year of Fleener vs Cooks, Snead, and Thomas

Sadly, we have not learned on the personnel management and just keep piling on the silly silly stupid mistakes.

Now we have Fleener who is 28 and has always had bad hands. Who pays that kind of money for someone who is who they are at this point?

He's looking at at 30 and his game is not going to change. If he hasn't clicked with Drew Brees yet, it's unlikely that he will improve meaningfully to justify that salary.

What gem will they uncover this offseason?

 

[Eman5805]

Brees did mouth a frustrated "use both hands" after the second attempted circus catch gone awry.

He did something similar to Cadet on one of those throws in the flats. Holding up both hands basically saying "Don't try to breadbasket!"

 

[VPCajun]

Week 2
Fleener and Coleman
4/12 for 44 yards, 3.6 ypa, 44 passer rating

Rest of team
27/33, 219 yards, 1 TD, 0int, 104.4 passer rating


Better yet, when Brees targeted the top 3 WR's.
16/22, 178 yards, 1 TD, 0 int, 111.6 QB rating


For the season
Fleener- 3/12, 33 yards, 2.75 yards per attempt, 44.4 passer rating (would be worst in NFL by massive stretch)

Top 3 receivers
37/46, 80.4%, 11.94 ypa, 551 yards, 4 TD, 0 int, 145.6 passer rating (Would be best in NFL by massive stretch)

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Yeah, but that's why it's so BRILLIANT to pass to Fleener (and Coleman and Cadet) - the other team does not EXPECT IT!

So Sayeth SP

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[crosswatt]

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Yeah, but that's why it's so BRILLIANT to pass to Fleener (and Coleman and Cadet) - the other team does not EXPECT IT!

So Sayeth SP

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Coleman pulls in just one of those targets and the board is a completely different place today. It's like we as a fan base have completely lost our tolerance for risk.

 

[Meachemdat]

Coleman pulls in just one of those targets and the board is a completely different place today. It's like we as a fan base have completely lost our tolerance for risk.

We should have won that game by destroying their defense with our TE as he was open pretty much all day.

That's how it goes sometimes. I'm ready to see what Manhertz can do at least for one play.

 

[VPCajun]

He did something similar to Cadet on one of those throws in the flats. Holding up both hands basically saying "Don't try to breadbasket!"

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Cadet's failure on that play (as well as last week) is he didn't look the ball into his hands - and started to turn upfield before he actually Caught The Ball.

Football 101 - Catch THEN Run...

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[VPCajun]

Coleman pulls in just one of those targets and the board is a completely different place today. It's like we as a fan base have completely lost our tolerance for risk.

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Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda...

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[crosswatt]

Sadly, we have not learned on the personnel management and just keep piling on the silly silly stupid mistakes.

Now we have Fleener who is 28 and has always had bad hands. Who pays that kind of money for someone who is who they are at this point?

He's looking at at 30 and his game is not going to change. If he hasn't clicked with Drew Brees yet, it's unlikely that he will improve meaningfully to justify that salary.

What gem will they uncover this offseason?

Who had the best year of his entire career last season? That would be Ben Watson. Why was Jimmy Graham able to develop out of a basketball playing third round pick into one of the premier pass catchers in the league, and has not even come close to replicating those numbers on a different, contending team?

What team resurrected Jeremy Shockey? What team got double the production out of Dave Thomas than he ever had in New England? What team consistently finds a way to get production out of low pedigreed tight ends?

The Saints also added a pretty good tight end coach as an assistant in Dan Campbell. Coby Fleener has all the tools, but wasn't really featured well in terms of his skill set in Pep Hamilton's offense. It had and still has a chance to be a difference making move for this offense, and, factoring in those elements, was a very sensible risk to take to improve a position on the team.

So why on earth would that be considered an outlandish or silly or stupid move to make? And why would we declare it to be a complete and abject failure after two games? Pretty defeatist attitude if you ask me.

 

[crosswatt]

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Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda...

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Hindsight and second guessing are easy and lazy and safe. Truth is that risks fail sometimes. That doesn't mean that it is stupid to take the next one when it presents itself. Making a choice in the moment to try and do something great is never going to find itself on the receiving end of my ire.

 

[RetroMcBananaFace]

Walt looks like nailed this signing unfortunately

On the bright side, the Fleener contract was set up so that the team has an easy out in the 2017 offseason. Can designate him a June 1 cut and gain 6.4 million cap space against only 1.6 million dead money. So we're not stuck with him long-term if he doesn't work out.

 

[MobileSaintsFan]

- Now, Fleener. Read my posts and you will know I didn't like the signing, and that independently of who the player was. I was against giving such a big contract to someone who plays a position that is not a priority. I would have used the money on getting one or two guards. About him as a player I was pesimistic because his college coach (Pep Hamilton) and quarterback (Andrew Luck) were not able to get the most of him. That is a serious red flag. To me, the biggest problem with Fleener is that he plays with fear, with no confidence. He is physically perfect but he does not polished on technique. I think Payton and Brees have to rebuild him as a player. They should build his confidence in simple easy routes and catches. He has to spend hours catching balls after practice and hopefuly, he can turn into a competent player, though not a star.

I totally agree with your point about Fleener lacking confidence and I could see the fear on his face yesterday. Brees can take an average Joe and make him look like a stud. I'm hoping Fleener gets it together.

At some point the FO and Payton need to sit down and look at all of the poor signings in FA and missed draft picks. I want to keep Payton, but have him do what he does best. The same goes with Loomis. If we can get a true GM in here then possibly the Brees window will give us one more shot at a ring.

This season is going to have a lot of ups and more downs until we get some of our guys back, but the silver lining is we will have a lot of former backups with a lot of game experience going in to next year.

 

[VPCajun]

... Crawley is an undrafted rookie getting his first NFL action...

Crawley will develop into a good corner given time, he seems to have a knack for being around the ball. Harris is going to be a stud corner for us in the nickle. These two just need time and unfortunately have been thrown into the fire the first two weeks.

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This is probably the wrong thread to comment on Crawley, so Sorry up front...


Not only Crawly, but I thought the whole secondary did an AMAZING JOB esp considering the circumstances of all the injured players! (And pretty darn good even if you don't consider the circumstances.)

And on that pass where Cruz got the better of Crawly:

- "Objectively", a DB in that situation should "always" knock the ball down as the first choice. (Except 1- the DB is a Superb Catcher and/or 2- he has a clear unchallenged attempt to catch a pass)

- "Subjectively", Crawley made the mistake of going for the Catch instead of the knockdown - *Especially since Cruz had the better position on the ball! As well as leverage!*

Imagine if the 2 positions of Cruz and Crawley were switched, then it (to me at least) now switches that Crawley has the best position (including position of the body) and leverage to make an attempt at an INT.

Now if Crawley is a "Superb Catcher" of the ball, then I might be inclined to have him attempt to Intercept the ball.

Otherwise, I rather him Knock The Ball Down!

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[blackadder]

Who had the best year of his entire career last season? That would be Ben Watson. Why was Jimmy Graham able to develop out of a basketball playing third round pick into one of the premier pass catchers in the league, and has not even come close to replicating those numbers on a different, contending team?

What team resurrected Jeremy Shockey? What team got double the production out of Dave Thomas than he ever had in New England? What team consistently finds a way to get production out of low pedigreed tight ends?

The Saints also added a pretty good tight end coach as an assistant in Dan Campbell. Coby Fleener has all the tools, but wasn't really featured well in terms of his skill set in Pep Hamilton's offense. It had and still has a chance to be a difference making move for this offense, and, factoring in those elements, was a very sensible risk to take to improve a position on the team.

So why on earth would that be considered an outlandish or silly or stupid move to make? And why would we declare it to be a complete and abject failure after two games? Pretty defeatist attitude if you ask me.

Watson always caught the ball well when targeted. His targets went way up.

Graham had the skill set and quickly developed it after starting football later in life, came on quickly when put in the right offense. Seattle was never the right offense.

Shockey was always a good TE but with injury and attitude issues, not problems catching the ball.

Fleener is 28 and for his entire career been the same in terms of butter fingers and drops at the worst time.

Maybe if they limit the kind of situations and routes he runs and can throw the ball "just so" to allow him to cradle he can contribute sometimes but highly unlikely he's going to ever be a reliable downfield threat that you would justify what he was paid.

You can get a late round draft pick who can do most of what he can reliably do, and all these things were known before he was signed. This, on top of the absurd money for Josh Hill, is just one more blow to the team.

It didn't take Marques Colston or Jimmy Graham this long to benefit from working with Brees. After one set of OTA's and a camp they were productive. Same with Shockey when he came over.

Were still in a loop of moneyball turned on it's head.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Exactly....Coleman didn't expect back shoulder on one and was interfered with on another (the one handed attempt)

The pass that was a back shoulder should not have been a back shoulder throw. He had has man beat. Why throw back shoulder when the WR has his man beat?