N/S Brutal Hit: Trevor Lawrence went to another universe (Update: Al-Shaair suspended 3 games) (7 Viewers)

[efil4stnias]

If you want to see someone in a certain light, anything they do will lend credence to how you feel. I don't think it was dirty or intentional, but I do think players have to realize it's better to ease up on QB's than to go for the hit 99% of the time because 99% of them will slide vs take you on.

He deservered to be suspended, doesn't deserve to be called dirty.

this light? ( this is just last 2 years )

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

If you want to see someone in a certain light, anything they do will lend credence to how you feel. I don't think it was dirty or intentional, but I do think players have to realize it's better to ease up on QB's than to go for the hit 99% of the time because 99% of them will slide vs take you on.

He deservered to be suspended, doesn't deserve to be called dirty.

Nah. And your opening sentence works both ways. He wants to deliver "remember me" shots and it's okay within the confines of the rules, but sometimes he steps outside of those confines as he did, here. That's his game. I've stated Trevor slid late, but the forearm to the head was unnecessary and, yes, dirty.

 

[SweetT]

We should have them fight lions to their deaths.

Or we can just stop putting all kinda of restrictions, when it comes to tackling a QB. These dudes put their pant legs, one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They have played this game, their entire life, like everyone else. They have the same access to nutrition/weights/performance training/muscle recovery just like everyone else. When you place too many rules for one position, it confuses everyone, including the QB. You can’t give a defender a small strike zone, in game action, at full speed, and not expect this kind of result sometimes. You can’t ingrain a mentality (in a QB), that their actions (sliding/diving/hurdling/etc), will keep them free from big hits, regardless of intent. Once you tip the balance in favor of one side of the ball or position, it’s not football anymore. It’s all just an illusion of fair play and competitive balance. So, if it’s not fair across the board, then make it fair by putting flags on them. That way, everyone knows their place, and everyone has the same competitive edge. If not, then assume the risks. Not saying that the defender was right or wrong, but these things are bound to happen.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

This is precisely why they even have the QB slide rule in the first place.

Didn't they extend it to anyone giving themselves up now?

 

[superchuck500]

Or we can just stop putting all kinda of restrictions, when it comes to tackling a QB. These dudes put their pant legs, one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They have played this game, their entire life, like everyone else. They have the same access to nutrition/weights/performance training/muscle recovery just like everyone else. When you place too many rules for one position, it confuses everyone, including the QB. You can’t give a defender a small strike zone, in game action, at full speed, and not expect this kind of result sometimes. You can’t ingrain a mentality (in a QB), that their actions (sliding/diving/hurdling/etc), will keep them free from big hits, regardless of intent. Once you tip the balance in favor of one side of the ball or position, it’s not football anymore. It’s all just an illusion of fair play and competitive balance. So, if it’s not fair across the board, then make it fair by putting flags on them. That way, everyone knows their place, and everyone has the same competitive edge. If not, then assume the risks. Not saying that the defender was right or wrong, but these things are bound to happen.

OR we can have rules and expect massively paid and highly skilled/intelligent players to follow them. Do you honestly not believe that defenders try to hit QBs harder than anyone else? Forget how hard they train, it’s the single most important opposing player by a wide margin and they’re going to tee off on them if they can.

There have been rules about hitting QBs for decades now - starting in 1940 (!). And it isn’t just QBs - there are other rules about illegal hits on other players. Chop blocks were eliminated in 1981. In 1996 they outlawed hits “away from the flow of the play”. And handfuls of other rules since then to cut down on the violence in what is indeed a violent game. These people have families.

Clearly Al-Shaair had opportunity to avoid or lessen this contact - we don’t have to excuse it. This kind of play happens in every game at some point and the vast, vast majority of players manage to get through it without breaking the rule and causing the Quarterback’s brain to cease communicating with his body.

I don’t understand this compulsion to take what is clearly contact that is outside of the bell curve for what typically happens and use it to condemn the whole rule. The players know it was a bad hit, that’s why they immediately responded. We aren’t going to hear from the PA about this because it isn’t about the rule - it’s about Al-Shaair making an unnecessarily violent illegal hit.

That’s what this is - and we don’t have to tear down the whole system because a particularly violent player can’t control himself.

 

[efil4stnias]

Or we can just stop putting all kinda of restrictions, when it comes to tackling a QB. These dudes put their pant legs, one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They have played this game, their entire life, like everyone else. They have the same access to nutrition/weights/performance training/muscle recovery just like everyone else. When you place too many rules for one position, it confuses everyone, including the QB. You can’t give a defender a small strike zone, in game action, at full speed, and not expect this kind of result sometimes. You can’t ingrain a mentality (in a QB), that their actions (sliding/diving/hurdling/etc), will keep them free from big hits, regardless of intent. Once you tip the balance in favor of one side of the ball or position, it’s not football anymore. It’s all just an illusion of fair play and competitive balance. So, if it’s not fair across the board, then make it fair by putting flags on them. That way, everyone knows their place, and everyone has the same competitive edge. If not, then assume the risks. Not saying that the defender was right or wrong, but these things are bound to happen.

he didnt tackle the QB. He launched at a sliding QB and the first contact was his forearm - which happened to have additional bracing.

Confuses everyone? its one specific issue- a player giving himself up.

They are all professionals that have agreed to play within the rules of the game. Dont like the rules, go find another game to play.

Or continue to play in this manner and find yourself ejected, fined and suspended. His choice.

 

[VPCajun]

But, all is good.

The NFL sent a STRONGLY WORDED LETTER to Al-Shaair in addition to the 3 game suspension. (per Get Up)(They also pointed out that he is a repeat offender.)

smh

Al-Shaair should have been suspended for the rest of the season at minimum for that BLATANT elbow *while wearing a brace on that elbow* to the head on a sliding QB.

 

[VPCajun]

We should have them fight lions and alligators to their deaths.

fify

 

[DahnVill]

Al-Shaair is lucky Kyle Turley doesn't play for the Jaguars

 

[SweetT]

OR we can have rules and expect massively paid and highly skilled/intelligent players to follow them. Do you honestly not believe that defenders try to hit QBs harder than anyone else? Forget how hard they train, it’s the single most important opposing player by a wide margin and they’re going to tee off on them if they can.

There have been rules about hitting QBs for decades now - starting in 1940 (!). And it isn’t just QBs - there are other rules about illegal hits on other players. Chop blocks were eliminated in 1981. In 1996 they outlawed hits “away from the flow of the play”. And handfuls of other rules since then to cut down on the violence in what is indeed a violent game. These people have families.

Clearly Al-Shaair had opportunity to avoid or lessen this contact - we don’t have to excuse it. This kind of play happens in every game at some point and the vast, vast majority of players manage to get through it without breaking the rule and causing the Quarterback’s brain to cease communicating with his body.

I don’t understand this compulsion to take what is clearly contact that is outside of the bell curve for what typically happens and use it to condemn the whole rule. The players know it was a bad hit, that’s why they immediately responded. We aren’t going to hear from the PA about this because it isn’t about the rule - it’s about Al-Shaair making an unnecessarily violent illegal hit.

That’s what this is - and we don’t have to tear down the whole system because a particularly violent player can’t control himself.

I usually tend to agree with you, but it is being torn down before our very eyes. The rules for QBs, are a country mile long. You can barely breathe on these dudes. You may be holding out hope, that eventually everyone will be able to react accordingly, during high speed game actions, when a bang bang play can (and will) happen. You also seem like you are holding out hope, that the NFL will not continue to change their impending course to completely change how the game will eventually be played. Once professionals partake in flag football, in the Olympics, these highly paid athletes, WILL eventually sing the praises, of how they can display their talents, get paid handsomely, while not having to suffer possible life long injuries due to physical contact, or just being hit at all. I’m in the minority, of still loving to see some old school style hitting. If someone considers themselves a football player, can get into a defender’s face, with the “rah rah”, after throwing a 50 yard TD, then he should be enough of a football player to take a hit. Give me the TB/12 and Drew Brees types. They get hit and they channel their anger by embarrassing you the next play. They lived for moments like that.

 

[SweetT]

he didnt tackle the QB. He launched at a sliding QB and the first contact was his forearm - which happened to have additional bracing.

Confuses everyone? its one specific issue- a player giving himself up.

They are all professionals that have agreed to play within the rules of the game. Dont like the rules, go find another game to play.

Or continue to play in this manner and find yourself ejected, fined and suspended. His choice.

Lol, Trevor could’ve given himself up, long before the hit. He wanted the first down, so he paid a price

 

[efil4stnias]

Lol, Trevor could’ve given himself up, long before the hit. He wanted the first down, so he paid a price

of course he wanted the first down- thats part of the game. But he clearly saw he wasnt going to get there, and to avoid unneccessary hit, he slid. Which is the exact reason for the rule in place for players giving themselves up.

i could understand that logic if he was upright and running/lunging or reaching for the line to gain. Thats the "want" i think you are referring to here.

However, there is a photo about 5 posts up that clearly shows he starts his slide a full 2 yards FROM the first down?

And im sure you, like Trevor, and everyone else that watches football, understands that a player giving himself up, is DOWN at the moment he initiates the slide.

 

[Rexman100]

Or we can just stop putting all kinda of restrictions, when it comes to tackling a QB. These dudes put their pant legs, one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They have played this game, their entire life, like everyone else. They have the same access to nutrition/weights/performance training/muscle recovery just like everyone else. When you place too many rules for one position, it confuses everyone, including the QB. You can’t give a defender a small strike zone, in game action, at full speed, and not expect this kind of result sometimes. You can’t ingrain a mentality (in a QB), that their actions (sliding/diving/hurdling/etc), will keep them free from big hits, regardless of intent. Once you tip the balance in favor of one side of the ball or position, it’s not football anymore. It’s all just an illusion of fair play and competitive balance. So, if it’s not fair across the board, then make it fair by putting flags on them. That way, everyone knows their place, and everyone has the same competitive edge. If not, then assume the risks. Not saying that the defender was right or wrong, but these things are bound to happen.

My issue with flags is this. If it’s 3rd and 1 and the Qb runs around the end, all instincts say, blow him up regardless of anything. So a penalty should never be called when it’s an instinct play. Similar to a Wr catching the ball over the middle. The safety needs to blow him up at all costs to keep him from catching it. It’s an instinct play. Now what isn’t an instinct play that a penalty should be called? Qb hits to the head or grabbing the facemask or cutting him too low with intent to injure. Including tacking by falling with your full weight on the Qb trying to drive him into the ground with intent to injure. Hip drop and Horsecollar should only be a penalty if the defenders intent was to injure. In other words, if he could’ve tackled him normally, but chose to horsecolar, or hip drop then that’s intent to injure. Was a penalty deserved on the defender that knocked out Olave? Yes, because he could’ve hit him in the mid section, instead he CHOSE to go for the kill shot. Was a penalty deserved for the Jax Qb? The Qb was trying to get a first, so he ran as far as he could go to get the first secured then he slid. So it was a bang bang play. Should there be a penalty for a Qb sliding and giving himself up? Yes. If the defender has time to react. QBs are taking advantage of being able to get as many yards as possible then slide. The lessons learned, expect to be drilled going over the middle as a WR. And hope that the defender doesn’t go for the kill shot with intent to injure. If you’re a Qb, you better slide early to give the defender a chance to react, or you’re risking a bang bang play, and your career.

 

[GeneHansen]

Lol, Trevor could’ve given himself up, long before the hit. He wanted the first down, so he paid a price

100%

Football has been called a game of inches for a hundred years, and now people are talking about how defenders need to ease up when a QB is running towards them because they should assume that QB is going to slide. I'm sure back in the old days, QB didn't slide. Then in the 70's, 80's and 90's they started sliding (and I don't remember this being an issue back then... nor do I remember it being an issue with Brees when he slid). But now we're in an era where a lot of big, mobile QB don't slide. Trevor Lawrence would fall into that category. In 3 and half years in the NFL he has ran for over 1,000 yards and 14 TD. I don't think he did it by sliding every time he took off with the football.

These defensive players are taught to fight for every inch they give up. It is engrained into their mentality. And now, somehow football has a (litigious) philosophical change to where the defensive player... who's job it is to stop the offensive player with the ball through the use of shear brute force... is now also responsible for the safety of the guy he's using every bit of his strength, speed, power and determination to stop. Its backwards.

 

[SweetT]

of course he wanted the first down- thats part of the game. But he clearly saw he wasnt going to get there, and to avoid unneccessary hit, he slid. Which is the exact reason for the rule in place for players giving themselves up.

i could understand that logic if he was upright and running/lunging or reaching for the line to gain. Thats the "want" i think you are referring to here.

However, there is a photo about 5 posts up that clearly shows he starts his slide a full 2 yards FROM the first down?

And im sure you, like Trevor, and everyone else that watches football, understands that a player giving himself up, is DOWN at the moment he initiates the slide.

I saw it differently. QBs are smart to know where the 1st down is. Sure, he’s down where he started to slide (by rule), but I’m not entirely sure that thought, was part of his plan. He knew he was getting close to the 1st down mark, and he waited until the last possible second, where the defender was closing in at his closest. Did Trevor think the defender would launch with his forearm? Probably not, but like I said, sometimes you pay a price. Unfortunate? Yes. Am I shocked some defender wanted a shot at the opposing QB? Nope