BS penalty. Int. grounding on Jameis. (1 Viewer)

[Brandon13]

I will say even with that, still not quite sure where the assessment of a 10 yard penalty comes from. Okay it's intentional grounding, but isn't intentional grounding taken from where the pass was thrown?

 

[ilvdsnts]

So, wait, if the clock is stopped, you are forced to play the down? Even if you want to just stop the clock? Scenario.......this same play but with only 4 seconds left on the clock....what then?

Send the FG unit out.

 

[football]

I am so confused. Regardless if the time was running or stop, how can spiking the ball a penalty for "intentional grounding". The whole idea of intentional grounding is when a quarterback intentionally throws the away without a receiver nearby to avoid a sack. Spiking the ball was not trying to avoid the sack. What is the ref interpretation of this rule?

 

[Domeination]

The great thing is that when I read thread titles like this one after a game, it always means we lost. Not today! Who dat!

 

[Brandon13]

I am so confused. Regardless if the time was running or stop, how can spiking the ball a penalty for "intentional grounding". The whole idea of intentional grounding is when a quarterback intentionally throws the away without a receiver nearby to avoid a sack. Spiking the ball was not trying to avoid the sack. What is the ref interpretation of this rule?

BS penalty. Int. grounding on Jameis.

I read this too and don't see anything in the official rules accounting for the call made today. A.R. 8.90 INTENTIONAL GROUNDING—SPIKE TO CONSUME TIME First-and-10 on B30. The game clock is stopped with six seconds left in the first half. QBA1 takes the snap and immediately spikes the ball...

saintsreport.com

 

[latechsaint26]

BS Penalty was on Lattimore. Dude clearly flopped trying to get into FG range. Like CLEARLY pushed Shon and flopped.

That should be a fine.

 

[FullMonte]

Does not make a difference when the ball is snapped the clock starts. Flag should not have been thrown for IG while the clock was stopped because it started with the snap

I was explaining why the refs were rushing to spot the ball.

As for the rest, it doesn’t matter when the clock starts. AR 8:90 explicitly states that it is intentional grounding if the QB spikes the ball when the clock is stopped prior to the play.

 

[ilvdsnts]

a team can't call b2b timeouts either

reasons

Because its the rule.

 

[ilvdsnts]

Sure thing:

2022 NFL Rulebook | NFL Football Operations

Explore the official 2022 NFL rulebook.

operations.nfl.com

It’s not there.

Yes it is. Rule 8, sect 2, Item 3.

 

[Sailorsaint]

Yes it is. Rule 8, sect 2, Item 3.

I still don't see anything in the rules.

Item 3. Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.
Item 4. Delayed Spike. A passer, after delaying his passing action for strategic purposes, is prohibited from throwing the ball to the ground in front of him, even though he is under no pressure from defensive rusher(s). Penalty: For intentional grounding: (a) loss of down and 10 yards from the previous spot; or (b) loss of down at the spot of the pass; or (c) if the passer is in his end zone when the ball is thrown, it is a safety.
See 4-7 for actions to conserve time inside two minutes of either half. Note: If the foul occurs less than 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage, but more than half the distance to the goal line, the ball is to be placed at the spot of the pass.

Rule 4, Section 7
SECTION 7 ACTIONS TO CONSERVE TIME ARTICLE 1. ILLEGAL ACTS. A team is not permitted to conserve time after the two-minute warning of either half by committing any of these acts: (a) a foul by either team that prevents the snap (i.e., false start, encroachment, etc.); (b) intentional grounding; (c) an illegal forward pass; (d) throwing a backward pass out of bounds; (e) spiking or throwing the ball in the field of play after a down has ended, except after a touchdown; or (f) any intentional foul that causes the clock to stop. Penalty: For Illegally Conserving Time: Loss of five yards unless a larger distance penalty is applicable. When actions referred to above are committed by the offensive team while time is in, officials will run off 10 seconds from the game clock before permitting the ball to be put in play on the ready-for-play signal. The game clock will start on the ready-forplay signal unless another rule prescribes otherwise. If the offensive team has timeouts remaining, it will have the option of using a timeout in lieu of a 10-second runoff, in which case the game clock will start on the snap after the timeout.

 

[sainthood]

Logic says to be a penalty the quarterback must be under duress whether the clock was moving or not. There is zero advantage to the offensive team in doing what Winston did when the clock is stopped and the team is losing. (Even if the team was winning you would prefer to kneel and spiking the ball still would be counterproductive.)

It the rule says the quarterback does not have to be under duress then Winston should know the rule. It's his job. The NFL needs to change that rule in the offseason because the rule is bad.

I assume there were three errors by Winston / the coaching staff in this series: he spiked the ball on a stopped clock on first down, he may have thought it was second down at the beginning of third down not realizing the penalty also contained a loss of down, and on third down even if he knew it was third down there was 30 seconds left on the game clock and he should have had an end zone or out of bounds play to get the first down ready rather than a spike the ball play.

If Atlanta had made the field goal at the end, these events would be the most talked about plays of the game as the Saints had a certain chance at a walk off and win or miss and lose field goal and created a make a field goal and still lose scenario when it was easily avoidable.

Hopefully Dennis Allen will coach this up this week. Pete Carmichael will take some heat for not being in Winston's ear to prevent it and we can never be at risk for this nonsense ever again.
It reminds me of Tom Brady not knowing what down it was against the Bears last year. It happens, but it shouldn't.

 

[ilvdsnts]

Don't feel like searching to find it for the 2022 rulebook lol, but that's it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2021%2520-%2520Rule%2520Book%2520%2520Case%2520Book.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi_qMzv-436AhXbmmoFHegRBWIQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WYwih7vKicQrscGhskQIq

I still don't see anything in the rules.

Item 3. Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.

This describes when you can spike the ball and how. “is permitted to stop the game clock” but since the game clock wasn’t running its not permitted.

 

[Sailorsaint]

Item 3. Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.

This describes when you can spike the ball and how. “is permitted to stop the game clock” but since the game clock wasn’t running its not permitted.

I hear what you are saying, but it doesn't say anything about a penalty for doing it when the clock isn't running. After each of the illegal plays, it describes what the penalty should be in any situation, nothing about spiking the ball when the clock isn't running. And as for wanting to stop the clock, I go back to my original argument....once the ball is snapped, the clock is running, not stopped.

 

[BarBar]

The refs did not need to say anything. The game clock was stopped. That answers the question. It was a mistake by Winston. He compounded the mistake by grounding the ball with time left for the Falcons to still have a chance on third down. Either could have cost the Saints the game. The third down play was worse given you could have easily taken an endzone shot or tried to get the first down. Lack of awareness on Winston's part on both.

Not just Winston. Other offensive players were running to the line pointing to the ground indicating they plan to spike. Coaches also were fooled. Even at home I was unclear on whether or not Landry was down. It wasn't made very clear by the refs and it appears the entire saints team was fooled.

 

[BarBar]

Don't feel like searching to find it for the 2022 rulebook lol, but that's it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2021%2520-%2520Rule%2520Book%2520%2520Case%2520Book.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi_qMzv-436AhXbmmoFHegRBWIQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WYwih7vKicQrscGhskQIq

.but he wasn't spiking to consume time. Do we really have to look at the intent of the QB to figure out if it's a penalty??