Corner vs. DT--your analysis (1 Viewer)

[MLU]

Thanks for clarifying that.

You're welcome.

 

[MLU]

Thanks for clarifying that.

You're welcome.

 

[EternalOptimist]

A DT can be in on every play, whereas a CB will mainly be focused on pass defense. Therefore, DT is more important.

This says it all for me. Compounded by the fact that none of our three division rivals have elite QBs/high-powered passing offenses. If we faced Tom Brady or Peyton Manning twice a year, I'd say yeah, CB is a higher priority. But with six games against Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia and Falcon Du Jour, I'd rather have a grinder up front who can disrupt the run and the pass.

 

[SebaSaint]

Bottom Line:

A good corner helps the corner back position only because they are behind the backers and D-Line.

A good DT helps the DEs, the LBs, and the CBs and safeties.

thats it.

 

[wbbigtymer]

DT's are a crapshoot in the draft. No matter how good we think Dorsey and Ellis will be---there are always a couple of DT's who everyone thinks will shine. The failure rate of DT's in the top of the draft is very alarming.
06--Bunkley
05-Travis Johnson
03- Roberstson sullivan Jimmy Kennedy
02-Ryan Sims Wendell Bryant
01Gerard Warren Daimione Lewis

CB's not as many busts,

Check out the thread on why drafting Dorsey or Ellis makes so much sense. The link in that thread specifically explains how you are exactly flip flopped on the issue--CBs are a crapshoot and DTs are safe.

 

[Teachersaint]

I'm just looking at cb's in the top 15--not many busts--here are all the corners taken in the top 15 the last few years

1 14 Darrelle Revis---Starter
1 15 Tye Hill Starter--was good -got hurt
1 6 Pacman Jones On the field--good
1 8 DeAngelo Hall Probowler
1 10 Dunta Robinson Good player
1 5 Terence Newman Pro Bowl
1 11 Marcus Trufant Pro Bowl

There are zero busts in those top 15 cornerback (Pacman maybe--but only because of off the field issues) picks going back to 2002

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

I'm just looking at cb's in the top 15--not many busts--here are all the corners taken in the top 15 the last few years

1 14 Darrelle Revis---Starter
1 15 Tye Hill Starter--was good -got hurt
1 6 Pacman Jones On the field--good
1 8 DeAngelo Hall Probowler
1 10 Dunta Robinson Good player
1 5 Terence Newman Pro Bowl
1 11 Marcus Trufant Pro Bowl

There are zero busts in those top 15 cornerback (Pacman maybe--but only because of off the field issues) picks going back to 2002

Those sure are some good CB's.........I would take anyone of them with the 10th pick......maybe not Hill, but he is a good CB.

 

[Teachersaint]

Check out the thread on why drafting Dorsey or Ellis makes so much sense. The link in that thread specifically explains how you are exactly flip flopped on the issue--CBs are a crapshoot and DTs are safe.

I went back to that thread----but in Saintdroopy's post regarding where all the rushing yards were coming was the most telling stat---we were 10th in the league when they ran inside at our DT's, but 29th and 26th at the ends---that tells me we need a WLB more than anything....

 

[St. PJ]

I went back to that thread----but in Saintdroopy's post regarding where all the rushing yards were coming was the most telling stat---we were 10th in the league when they ran inside at our DT's, but 29th and 26th at the ends---that tells me we need a WLB more than anything....

The stats Droopy keeps bringing up our schewed in my opinion, simply becuase we have had the same guys playing in the same positions at DE for the past few years. I think last year there were schematic changes in the priorities placed on the DE's responsibilities.

 

[BWS]

Simply put, a two dimensional DT-- someone who can take on double teams and keep lineman from the second level and stop the run as well as get interior pressure and disrupt the backfield is very rare. We DO NOT HAVE THAT. Ellis and Dorsey are those kind of guys. Only a handful of teams have this kind of DT. It is integral for any 34 defense, and for any Tampa 2 defense. In our 43, it would be just as important and impactful. We absolutely need this. A good DT is like a good QB or LT. They are RARE. So we should do everything we possibly can to get either Dorsey or Ellis. It is worth our first two picks.

A good CB is good becuase his line is good. He is good becuase the QB is under pressure and the scheme fits his skills. You can gameplan around his weaknesses and protect him with support, pressure, and the coverage you put him in. An elite corner is good no matter what support or scheme he is in. However, even the elite corner gets thrown all over if the QB has all day. We can not help a one dimensional DT without exposing our LB corp and secondary.

Without an elite DT, we are forced to bring somone else into the box, especially against two tight end sets. We are forced to blitz LB's or S's and leave our corner on an island, and if the pressure doesn't get there quickly, especially if we play someone competent, quick, and adept at reading defenses like Brees, Brady, ect, our corners will get burned, even if we have two Champ Baileys.

So in answer to your question, DT, no matter the cost. The players are there. There are two of them, and we will have to trade up and give more than Cincinatti is trying to give. I can guarantee that this is the only move that makes sense becuase next year we probably will not be drafting as high and it will cost more to move up. Last year, there was no elite DT. This year there are two. Go after what is there while we have the chance becuase these guys do not come along very often.

I totally agree about the value of a two-dimensional DT; with the possible exception of health issues, Dorsey and Ellis should be more valuable to the teams that take them than any two 1st round DTs selected back many years. However, the value of the 10th pick and the Saints second round pick is high enough that the Saints could move up to the 4th pick in the 1st round, if another team would trade. If the Saints trade their 1st and 2nd round picks for a 1st round pick lower than pick 4, they should expect something besides the 1st round pick in trade value. For example, pick 5 in the 1st round should also include a 4th round pick; pick 6 should also include a 3rd round pick. Pick 7 is the same value as the Saints pick 10 plus the 3rd round pick.

We should know after Atlanta picks whether Dorsey, Ellis, both, or neither are available for a possible trade up. The CBs available at pick 10 all have issues and aren't worth it. If the Saints can't trade up for Dorsey or Ellis, I would like to see them trade down in the 1st round, either for a starter (CB, DT, OLB, FS, or even TE) or for an extra 2nd round pick. If the trade is for an extra 2nd round pick, the Saints could take the best available CB, OLB or FS in the 1st round and look at DTs in the 2nd round.