Defensive formation on 3rd and 16 in Eagles game. (2 Viewers)

[SaintStephen1]

No. I am not crazy.

The Minny Miracle was not a play calling error. It was a missed tackle by Marcus Williams. It happens. Even when you make the perfect call sometimes you get beat. So, yes, when you give up 10, 19, and 15 in 3 games, it's nitpicking.

He left a single safety between a receiver and the goal line with 10 seconds to play. He rushed 4. He had LBs playing within 7-8 yards of line. He had guys peel off with shorter receivers and he left a notoriously bad tackler one on one on the one guy that could beat you. It’s similar to today. He created the UNNECESSARY circumstance that allowed an opponent to beat you. His defenses give up points at ends of halfs game after game. In close NFL games that’s a big deal. And it’s those circumstances that keep him around .500 as a coach. He can coach exactly the same way but If he learned from his past mistakes in those 2 minute situations he’d be awesome. Always man to man in 3rd and long late allow for big plays.

 

[SirLoinSaint64]

Off man coverage. Keep everything in front of you. In that situation you have to double cover the TE. Their only weapon on the field.

 

[Pkessling]

He left a single safety between a receiver and the goal line with 10 seconds to play. He rushed 4. He had LBs playing within 7-8 yards of line. He had guys peel off with shorter receivers and he left a notoriously bad tackler one on one on the one guy that could beat you. It’s similar to today. He created the UNNECESSARY circumstance that allowed an opponent to beat you. His defenses give up points at ends of halfs game after game. In close NFL games that’s a big deal. And it’s those circumstances that keep him around .500 as a coach. He can coach exactly the same way but If he learned from his past mistakes in those 2 minute situations he’d be awesome. Always man to man in 3rd and long late allow for big plays.

The Minny Miracle is all on DA. Any other DC would have had a 3 man rush, no LBs and 8 DBs playing an umbrella.

 

[St. Widge]

He left a single safety between a receiver and the goal line with 10 seconds to play. He rushed 4. He had LBs playing within 7-8 yards of line. He had guys peel off with shorter receivers and he left a notoriously bad tackler one on one on the one guy that could beat you. It’s similar to today. He created the UNNECESSARY circumstance that allowed an opponent to beat you. His defenses give up points at ends of halfs game after game. In close NFL games that’s a big deal. And it’s those circumstances that keep him around .500 as a coach. He can coach exactly the same way but If he learned from his past mistakes in those 2 minute situations he’d be awesome. Always man to man in 3rd and long late allow for big plays.

So, upon further review Howden said this after the game. This is from Mike Triplett's article on NOF:



“That’s all my fault,” said Howden, who fell on the sword since he was the deep safety crashing down while the others were in man coverage. “I gotta make sure I clear the traffic because everybody else is in man, and I’m just coming down from space.

“Seen a crosser, was trying to go get it, just ran into another teammate. Things happen, but I just didn’t see him and it just happened at the wrong time. … It sucks, but I gotta move on to next week, because that type of stuff will haunt you.”



So, Howden was supposed to be the deep safety on that side playing zone, Mathieu was the deep safety on the other side playing zone, Lattimore was in man on Dotson, and Harris was in man on Goddart. So there were supposed to be two Safeties over the top but Howden crashed down and took out both Lattimore and Harris. So, it was the guy playing zone that caused the problem on the Mesh concept, not the guys playing man.

It was an aggressive play call, probably too aggressive in that situation, but it should have been at worst a 10 to 15 yard gain, possibly less, if Howden doesn't crash down and take out Harris and Lattimore. In addition, Allen suggested that they were doubling Goddard on that play which was the right call given that their top two WRs were out. Sometimes even the right call gets beat. As was shown by the Minny Miracle just because you are playing zone doesn't mean you can't get beat for a big play.

 

[St. Widge]

He left a single safety between a receiver and the goal line with 10 seconds to play. He rushed 4. He had LBs playing within 7-8 yards of line. He had guys peel off with shorter receivers and he left a notoriously bad tackler one on one on the one guy that could beat you. It’s similar to today. He created the UNNECESSARY circumstance that allowed an opponent to beat you. His defenses give up points at ends of halfs game after game. In close NFL games that’s a big deal. And it’s those circumstances that keep him around .500 as a coach. He can coach exactly the same way but If he learned from his past mistakes in those 2 minute situations he’d be awesome. Always man to man in 3rd and long late allow for big plays.

And the play worked other than Marcus Williams inexplicably putting his head down while trying to tackle and whiffing. And Marcus Williams is only knows as a notoriously bad tackler because he missed that tackle against Minnesota.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Just watched Saints play again. 8 men on line of scrimmage and a 9th 7 yards from scrimmage on 3rd and 16! WTF!! NOBODY can defend Allen. A complete idiotic call. Just scream to Eagles “Run a cross and bump off DBs.” Hurts would never have driven them throwing balls into windows.

He gave a fake pressure look, that's not uncommon..and neither is it uncommon for it to get beat outside the tacklebox.

Look man, up until thta point Dennis Allen called a great game, he was going to eventually make a costly play-call it happens. Offense can't go 1-5 in the redzone w/ scores. You just can't. The dam broke. Was it a bad call...yes. but hat's what happen when you let a team hang around in a close game. Add that to not taking the field goal (though I was ok w/ goign for it on that 4th...it was a yard) and it all comes down on Allen. But the offense wet the bed to a degree.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

So, upon further review Howden said this after the game. This is from Mike Triplett's article on NOF:



“That’s all my fault,” said Howden, who fell on the sword since he was the deep safety crashing down while the others were in man coverage. “I gotta make sure I clear the traffic because everybody else is in man, and I’m just coming down from space.

“Seen a crosser, was trying to go get it, just ran into another teammate. Things happen, but I just didn’t see him and it just happened at the wrong time. … It sucks, but I gotta move on to next week, because that type of stuff will haunt you.”



So, Howden was supposed to be the deep safety on that side playing zone, Mathieu was the deep safety on the other side playing zone, Lattimore was in man on Dotson, and Harris was in man on Goddart. So there were supposed to be two Safeties over the top but Howden crashed down and took out both Lattimore and Harris. So, it was the guy playing zone that caused the problem on the Mesh concept, not the guys playing man.

It was an aggressive play call, probably too aggressive in that situation, but it should have been at worst a 10 to 15 yard gain, possibly less, if Howden doesn't crash down and take out Harris and Lattimore. In addition, Allen suggested that they were doubling Goddard on that play which was the right call given that their top two WRs were out. Sometimes even the right call gets beat. As was shown by the Minny Miracle just because you are playing zone doesn't mean you can't get beat for a big play.

execution more than anyting, but also, until DA's defenses stop having these hiccups end of half/end of game he's going to leave himself open for "This game is on DA" moments from fans, although cumulatively it was the run defense that ultimately caused them the biggest issue. During the 3rd Q, I looked at my girl and said "one of these defenses is about to break, and it looks like it's going to be the one that's giving up the most rushing yards....looks like us"

 

[saint_drago]

I've never tried to pretend that I'm a fan of DA as a HC but I like the man as a DC. If there was any way I could put this loss on DA then I'd grab a pitchfork and go to town. But on this one I just can't. It would be intellectually dishonest of me to blame DA for a fluke blown coverage like this. There was no way for DA to know that three of his defenders were going to play bumper cars.

Stuff happens. Had he went with a zone then maybe they get the stop. Maybe they don't. Had he run soft zone and given up a big play then we'd be bagging on him for running a soft zone. Sounds like they were trying to pay extra attention to Goedert but it didn't work out. That's football.

Bottom line, it should've never came down to that last drive. Even with not taking the FG and failing to convert on 4th down. The offense just couldn't get anything going so the defense was out there the whole game. They gassed out and made some crucial mistakes. This was a team loss and I'm sure that's how they carried it after the game. We all knew they'd get punched in the mouth at some point. Let's see how they respond. On to the falcons.

 

[Que Que 6]

Eagles saw man…. Ran a crosser / pick concept route combo when they saw it. And our guys obliged by doing their best 3 stooges impression. In that situation and down and distance you should be in quarters zone with your guys back at the sticks. Invite the quick throw and come up to make the tackle. We do it all the time. This was the time to do it again. It was an aggressive call, but not a smart one. Especially given the QB you’re playing. With all your DBs in man and with their backs turned to the QB…. You risk a big run by Hurts in that coverage too. That’s all I got.

100 percent! Shades of the San Fran CG game many moons ago. Paging Gregg Williams. Come on down. That hurt worse because that team was the best Saints team ever.

 

[cygnus_ltb]

And yet it would have been successful had Harris and Lattimore not collided or had Howden properly come up and made the tackle.

Maybe, but the only way it goes for a 60 yard gain is the D plays man coverage and the TE's defender gets picked off by a WR or another defender.

 

[DaveXA]

Maybe, but the only way it goes for a 60 yard gain is the D plays man coverage and the TE's defender gets picked off by a WR or another defender.

It wasn't straight up man coverage. There were 2 safeties deep. Problem was the near side deep safety screwed up and took a terrible angle rather than cheat towards the sideline. He screwed up. Rookie mistake. Hopefully he learns from it and won't happen again.

 

[SaintStephen1]

If these things didn’t happen in the last 2 minutes of each half game after game year after year, I might be more receptive to giving Allen the benefit of the doubt. But he is horrendous as a DC in those situations. Maybe it’s bad luck but I tend to not think so because it happens over and over and over.

 

[Saintslfc13]

The Minny Miracle is all on DA. Any other DC would have had a 3 man rush, no LBs and 8 DBs playing an umbrella.

You mean, exactly what he’s done since that we all complain about? The play worked, Marcus Williams went for the big hit instead of just form tackling. The players have to execute and in that moment Williams didn’t.

 

[Saintslfc13]

If these things didn’t happen in the last 2 minutes of each half game after game year after year, I might be more receptive to giving Allen the benefit of the doubt. But he is horrendous as a DC in those situations. Maybe it’s bad luck but I tend to not think so because it happens over and over and over.

Now this I agree with. Our end of half defense has been atrocious for years. This particular time I do think it was bad luck but it happens so often that it’s not able to be continued to that all the time. We are built to be a man defense though, so things happen.

 

[Rouxble]

“That’s all my fault,” said Howden, who fell on the sword since he was the deep safety crashing down while the others were in man coverage. “I gotta make sure I clear the traffic because everybody else is in man, and I’m just coming down from space.

Did someone from the team actually say Howden was supposed to be playing a deep zone? He looks like he is playing the robber in cover 1, and his description sounds the same.

All three plays on that series had a cover 1 robber/rat look. On each play two defenders ended up on Goedert, but he also had routes attacking the middle each play, so I can’t say for sure if they always wanted two on Goedert or if it just fell that way.

Have to wonder if the Eagles saw an opportunity there, clear out the deep safety and have three Saints defenders try to navigate the mesh.