Defensive formation on 3rd and 16 in Eagles game. (15 Viewers)

[SaintStephen1]

Just watched Saints play again. 8 men on line of scrimmage and a 9th 7 yards from scrimmage on 3rd and 16! WTF!! NOBODY can defend Allen. A complete idiotic call. Just scream to Eagles “Run a cross and bump off DBs.” Hurts would never have driven them throwing balls into windows.

 

[SaintStephen1]

I get that and I was joking. I just disagree that it was a bad call in that situation. Was it riskier than playing zone? Sure. But that's the nature of the way DA calls a defense and it's one of the things I actually like about him. I think most times it pays off. It didn't in this situation but only because normally reliable players inexplicably ran into each other.

Anway, I would really like to look at the play again and see exactly what coverage they were in on the backend. It looked to me like they had a safety over the top and Harris was shadowing Goddart across the field. So, it's not like it was just full sellout man coverage. But, maybe I saw it wrong in real time and I have not seen the play since then. If they really were just going full man on everyone, I agree it was too risky. But, if they did have a safety over the top I still don't have an issue with the call. But, I know you disagree and that's cool.

They had 8 men on LOS on 3rd and 16! Are you effing kidding me? How can anybody defend Allen on that call!

 

[Elvis]

I get that and I was joking. I just disagree that it was a bad call in that situation. Was it riskier than playing zone? Sure. But that's the nature of the way DA calls a defense and it's one of the things I actually like about him. I think most times it pays off. It didn't in this situation but only because normally reliable players inexplicably ran into each other.

Anway, I would really like to look at the play again and see exactly what coverage they were in on the backend. It looked to me like they had a safety over the top and Harris was shadowing Goddart across the field. So, it's not like it was just full sellout man coverage. But, maybe I saw it wrong in real time and I have not seen the play since then. If they really were just going full man on everyone, I agree it was too risky. But, if they did have a safety over the top I still don't have an issue with the call. But, I know you disagree and that's cool.

Looks very man to me, but I'll let someone smarter than me about defenses analyze it. Harris was not ready to cover the TE and it looks like Howden came down and blew up Lattimore following his guy. The corners looked like they were doing their jobs, but there was no plan for the guy who had been gashing them all day. It seriously reminds me of when Vernon Davis was running through our defense.

 

[TomThomster7]

I'd have to see the play again, also, but it appeared to me that Goeddert would have had a good gain even if the defenders didn't play Red Rover on the play.
Probably not a first down, but a sizeable gain nonetheless.
More than should have been gained.

 

[St. Widge]

They had 8 men on LOS on 3rd and 16! Are you effing kidding me? How can anybody defend Allen on that call!

ZOMG!!!!!!!! 8!!!!!! ZOMG!!!!!!!!

Allen does that all the time and backs out of it to disguise the defense. If he brought all 8, or 7, or even 6 you have a point. But I don't think he did that.

Beyond all the rest of it, even if that was a bad call, he called a very good game overall holding them to 15 points and containing Hurts for most of the game. They still need to clean up the run D and stop giving up big plays, but that's nitpicking when they gave up 10, 19, and 15 points so far this year.

 

[Infoman]

Looks very man to me, but I'll let someone smarter than me about defenses analyze it.

It was. And like I said. Even if everyone wouldn’t have collided…. Harris was beat badly on the cross just by the screen action. He likely picks up the first even if they don’t cluster bomb each other on the play. It was an aggressive and needless call. All we needed was a tackle short of the sticks, and to not turn a guy loose.

 

[St. Widge]

They had 8 men on LOS on 3rd and 16! Are you effing kidding me? How can anybody defend Allen on that call!

And I just looked at the play. They back out of it and only rushed 3. Werner covered Barkley and May was the spy on Hurts.

 

[St. Widge]

Looks very man to me, but I'll let someone smarter than me about defenses analyze it. Harris was not ready to cover the TE and it looks like Howden came down and blew up Lattimore following his guy. The corners looked like they were doing their jobs, but there was no plan for the guy who had been gashing them all day. It seriously reminds me of when Vernon Davis was running through our defense.

It's hard to tell on the TV shot, but it looked like man with a single high safety. Still a risky call but not a total sell out. But, if it really was single high then I do think it was too risky. I thought there was Cover 2 over the top when I looked at the play in real time.

 

[St. Widge]

It was. And like I said. Even if everyone wouldn’t have collided…. Harris was beat badly on the cross just by the screen action. He likely picks up the first even if they don’t cluster bomb each other on the play. It was an aggressive and needless call. All we needed was a tackle and not turn a guy loose.

Maybe he picks up the first, but it's not the big play it turned out to be. But having seen the video again, I do tend to agree that playing man with a single high Safety was too risky.

 

[SaintStephen1]

ZOMG!!!!!!!! 8!!!!!! ZOMG!!!!!!!!

Allen does that all the time and backs out of it to disguise the defense. If he brought all 8, or 7, or even 6 you have a point. But I don't think he did that.

Beyond all the rest of it, even if that was a bad call, he called a very good game overall holding them to 15 points and containing Hurts for most of the game. They still need to clean up the run D and stop giving up big plays, but that's nitpicking when they gave up 10, 19, and 15 points so far this year.

Giving up a 61 yard pass play on 3rd and 16 is nitpicking. Are you crazy? I guess his defense on the Minny Miracle and the long pass by Vikings in the Dome before the Rudolph push off were nitpicking too.

 

[Elvis]

ZOMG!!!!!!!! 8!!!!!! ZOMG!!!!!!!!

Allen does that all the time and backs out of it to disguise the defense. If he brought all 8, or 7, or even 6 you have a point. But I don't think he did that.

Beyond all the rest of it, even if that was a bad call, he called a very good game overall holding them to 15 points and containing Hurts for most of the game. They still need to clean up the run D and stop giving up big plays, but that's nitpicking when they gave up 10, 19, and 15 points so far this year.

I don't disagree that he called a good game generally. But it's the few situational back breakers that are and always have been the problem with DA. He's not great at those at times and it's a lot of the same situations repeating themselves. He doesn't seem to learn from them.

And I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm putting this all on this single call by DA, I am not. I think the loss of McCoy was FAR more impactful than this one play in today's loss. But it was a bad call any way you look at it and it came at the worst time possible.

 

[St. Widge]

Giving up a 61 yard pass play on 3rd and 16 is nitpicking. Are you crazy? I guess his defense on the Minny Miracle and the long pass by Vikings in the Dome before the Rudolph push off were nitpicking too.

No. I am not crazy.

The Minny Miracle was not a play calling error. It was a missed tackle by Marcus Williams. It happens. Even when you make the perfect call sometimes you get beat. So, yes, when you give up 10, 19, and 15 in 3 games, it's nitpicking.

 

[St. Widge]

I don't disagree that he called a good game generally. But it's the few situational back breakers that are and always have been the problem with DA. He's not great at those at times and it's a lot of the same situations repeating themselves. He doesn't seem to learn from them.

And I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm putting this all on this single call by DA, I am not. I think the loss of McCoy was FAR more impactful than this one play in today's loss. But it was a bad call any way you look at it and it came at the worst time possible.

That's fair and I think it's because he's aggressive. Sometimes it costs him, but overall his defenses are very good and don't give up a lot of points. It's certainly good enough to win a lot of games if you have even a solid offensive performance. And, it's not unusual for even very good coaches to have faults that they are stubborn about. Payton, for instance, would abandon the run and get "too cute" at times.

And I do have issues with DA not having good situational awareness when managing games overall so I guess it's not surprising that sometimes he goes off the rails in situational defense.

 

[Elvis]

That's fair and I think it's because he's aggressive. Sometimes it costs him, but overall his defenses are very good and don't give up a lot of points. It's certainly good enough to win a lot of games if you have even a solid offensive performance. And, it's not unusual for even very good coaches to have faults that they are stubborn about. Payton, for instance, would abandon the run and get "too cute" at times.

And I do have issues with DA not having good situational awareness when managing games overall so I guess it's not surprising that sometimes he goes off the rails in situational defense.

Right, that was my issue with today. I think everyone knew it was going to be very hard to score once McCoy went down. We were going to need the defense to get off the field and give the offense some extra possessions. To a degree they did with some of the turnovers, but those largely came after some long Philly drives and they didn't do much for giving the offense short fields or preserving the D's energy.

Once the offense needed some help, he needed to figure out how to get some 3 and outs. Those never came. And once we managed to regain the lead, he needed to protect the tired defensive players from their own fatigue. I'm not even sure he recognized how tired those guys were after being on the field for so long in the 2nd quarter and then having to go right back out there for over 6 minutes to start the 3rd.

But once again, it's not all on DA. But he was responsible for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory on that drive. He had to know where the team was at on energy, he needed to emphasize that Goedert was the guy to lock down (especially with Smith out), he needed to put them in the best position to succeed. I think he got cocky and aggressive at the wrong time and we're now forced to gripe about it.

 

[SaintStephen1]

I'd have to see the play again, also, but it appeared to me that Goeddert would have had a good gain even if the defenders didn't play Red Rover on the play.
Probably not a first down, but a sizeable gain nonetheless.
More than should have been gained.

I agree with this. He would have turned the corner on Howden anyway.