Derek Carr won’t take a pay cut for 2025 but willing to restructure to help the cap (2 Viewers)

[St. Widge]

Hopefully Khai is using his magic cap computer to figure out a whole bunch of scenarios right now to give the new HC options. Because no coach is going to succeed with a mediocre QB and not a ton of talent anywhere else. There needs to be a plan to get roster flexible, younger and more talented within a few years.

I think we can do that by 2026 if they don't do any dumb deals between now and then. I think it comes down to does a new coach want to give Rattler a shot to be the franchise QB knowing that it could end up turning into another 5 or 5 win season or does he want to take a shot at some level of success in the 8 to 9 win range with Carr?

If I were the new HC, I'd move on from Carr and keep the aging vets until 2026 so you can do a full reset in 2026 with full knowledge of whether or not Rattler is the future. If he isn't you can draft a QB or move up for a QB. If he is, you draft to build around him.

But, I can understand why a new coach might want to try to have moderate success in year 1 in hopes that it buys him more time to rebuild.

 

[Saint Greg]

Yeah team agreed to a contract and no player taking a pay cut. While he hasn’t been great he also hasn’t had the best help. Also been beat up pretty bad and always gets back and plays the minute he’s capable.

We get a couple guys to take paycuts every year. The ones I've heard talked about the most for this year are Taysom and Cam.

 

[Elvis]

I think we can do that by 2026 if they don't do any dumb deals between now and then. I think it comes down to does a new coach want to give Rattler a shot to be the franchise QB knowing that it could end up turning into another 5 or 5 win season or does he want to take a shot at some level of success in the 8 to 9 win range with Carr?

If I were the new HC, I'd move on from Carr and keep the aging vets until 2026 so you can do a full reset in 2026 with full knowledge of whether or not Rattler is the future. If he isn't you can draft a QB or move up for a QB. If he is, you draft to build around him.

But, I can understand why a new coach might want to try to have moderate success in year 1 in hopes that it buys him more time to rebuild.

You and I are on the same page on all of this. The big fear is the dumb deals. I feel like we used to sign a few cheap mid tier higher upside / backups on other teams type players every year and now it seems like they find it more important to get bigger names (looking at you Derek Carr and Chase Young) that make too much and had under performed on their last teams. As though we could get more out of the players those teams couldn't get. There haven't been a lot of examples of that working, but the few that have (Brees, Vilma, DD) makes them keep trying.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I sometimes wonder where we would be today if we kept Dalton one year longer and brought in Kubiak one year sooner.

still w/ DA as HC.

 

[Elvis]

We get a couple guys to take paycuts every year. The ones I've heard talked about the most for this year are Taysom and Cam.

I totally agree that we should try that with thos guys. Add Tyrann to that and you have something to work with. I'd like all 3 to stay with the team during the transition. The leadership alone is worth keeping them around. It's not like we could get better production at half the cost elsewhere, might as well see if that can get done.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

You and I are on the same page on all of this. The big fear is the dumb deals. I feel like we used to sign a few cheap mid tier higher upside / backups on other teams type players every year and now it seems like they find it more important to get bigger names (looking at you Derek Carr and Chase Young) that make too much and had under performed on their last teams. As though we could get more out of the players those teams couldn't get. There haven't been a lot of examples of that working, but the few that have (Brees, Vilma, DD) makes them keep trying.

What you're saying you hope they do is exactly what they did last year. They signed a bunch of mid tier higher upside backups and the only "name" guy was Chase Young but they didn't give him a dumb contract. They even stand to get a 3rd round pick if he walks. Not sure why you refuse to give them credit for how they handled last year when it's exactly what you're requesting they do in 2025 (and likely what they'll do)

I meah check it out for yourself. Last years FA class was as low profile as it gets. Young was the 46th highest paid DE, rougly a #2 level contract. Loomis, the guy everyone loves to hate right now was apart of the decision making you're saying they need to do moving forward lol.

Saints 2024 free agency tracker: New Orleans makes a splash with Chase Young deal

Keep track of all the Saints' free agent moves throughout the 2024 offseason.

www.espn.com

 

[St. Widge]

You and I are on the same page on all of this. The big fear is the dumb deals. I feel like we used to sign a few cheap mid tier higher upside / backups on other teams type players every year and now it seems like they find it more important to get bigger names (looking at you Derek Carr and Chase Young) that make too much and had under performed on their last teams. As though we could get more out of the players those teams couldn't get. There haven't been a lot of examples of that working, but the few that have (Brees, Vilma, DD) makes them keep trying.

I agree on the Carr deal but I don't have a big issue on teh Young deal. I would have preferred no void year (I think there is one), but it's not a huge contract and I think it was worth hoping to see the upside on a one year deal at a position that is so vital and where they have zero potential solutions. My real fear is that they are going to turn around and give Young a largeish multi-year contract now.

The bigger issue to me is void years on the contracts of older players and I love Ak, but I'm still not sure giving him that new deal was the right move if I remove emotion from the deal.

 

[Elvis]

What you're saying you hope they do is exactly what they did last year. They signed a bunch of mid tier higher upside backups and the only "name" guy was Chase Young but they didn't give him a dumb contract. They even stand to get a 3rd round pick if he walks. Not sure why you refuse to give them credit for how they handled last year when it's exactly what you're requesting they do in 2025 (and likely what they'll do)

I meah check it out for yourself. Last years FA class was as low profile as it gets. Young was the 46th highest paid DE, rougly a #2 level contract. Loomis, the guy everyone loves to hate right now was apart of the decision making you're saying they need to do moving forward lol.

Saints 2024 free agency tracker: New Orleans makes a splash with Chase Young deal

Keep track of all the Saints' free agent moves throughout the 2024 offseason.

www.espn.com

Not many of those guys were high upside, mostly projected special teamers. I did think Gay and Amadi played fairly well for what we signed them for. But far too many bad signings like Cedric Wilson and Jamal Williams for my taste. Granted I guess I'm asking a lot from the same people who drafted Davenport, Foskey, and Payton Turner. And Young was only 46th in salary, we paid $13 million for him in total compensation and because of void years $9 million of that will be dead money in 2025.

 

[BELOWSEALEVEL]

.500 type QB. Nothing he does screams keeper to me

 

[Elvis]

I agree on the Carr deal but I don't have a big issue on teh Young deal. I would have preferred no void year (I think there is one), but it's not a huge contract and I think it was worth hoping to see the upside on a one year deal at a position that is so vital and where they have zero potential solutions. My real fear is that they are going to turn around and give Young a largeish multi-year contract now.

The bigger issue to me is void years on the contracts of older players and I love Ak, but I'm still not sure giving him that new deal was the right move if I remove emotion from the deal.

Young had 4 Void years for a total of around $9 million that'll be dead money if he doesn't get extended. I have a problem with that contract because they Commanders traded him away for a 3rd and the 49ers didn't even try to sign him back after giving up that 3rd. They both knew something we ignored.

 

[SuperSaint]

Rizzi won every game he played and lost every game he didn't play.

Nothing says he has to take a pay cut, he's played hurt and given his body and soul to help this team win.

I probably wouldn't take a pay cut either.

 

[ravenblade23x]

Would you said the same thing about Nick Foles, Brad Johnson, Trent Dillfer, Joe Flacco, Jimmy Garopplo, Kaepernick, Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselback, Jake Delhomme , Rich Gannon, Kerry Collins, Brock Purdy???

Is that enough names??? I never understand how people can say a QB will NEVER take us anywhere when there are so many examples of non elite QBs making it and winning the SB

Lets just go with unlikely then. There is a .00000001% chance that Carr takes the Saints to the playoffs let alone the SB.

Everyone of those QB's you listed where on teams with great coaches and supporting cast of players that elevated the play of the very mediocre QB. I can understand the argument of bringing in Carr two years ago but this team has only gotten older and less talented.

Is there a chance some coach can come in and build something with Carr and maybe make a push for the playoffs? Even if the answer is yes it's very small chance and IMO is not worth delaying the 2-3 year rebuild this team needs. Carr had two years and failed to make the playoffs, why not give Rattler a chance with a healthy team and see what he can do? Maybe he is a bust, but either way Carr or Rattler, where still likely looking for a QB in a couple of years and I like the idea of moving on from Carr and testing out the cheaper and younger QB.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Not many of those guys were high upside, mostly projected special teamers. I did think Gay and Amadi played fairly well for what we signed them for. But far too many bad signings like Cedric Wilson and Jamal Williams for my taste. Granted I guess I'm asking a lot from the same people who drafted Davenport, Foskey, and Payton Turner. And Young was only 46th in salary, we paid $13 million for him in total compensation and because of void years $9 million of that will be dead money in 2025.

Jamal Wiilliams wasn't last year. Lets keep things in context. You, and many people here are saying Loomis needs to go for the type of changes that this organization needs to move forward. I'm presenting you with visible evidence that the pivot you're saying Loomis is incapable of doing, was actually indeed done last year. If I'm not mistaken 9million will be spread right? So that's a 4.5mil cap hit.

Even if not, it doesn't constitute the horrible contract's that we've been known to dole out, but you are squeezing the narrative so it fits. Again, we get a 3rd round pick out of the deal if he leaves. That's not "bad business" sir even if you want to make it that way so it supports your thoughts.

 

[St.Dan]

It'll be a restructure with his deal. Like we do in here, he knows there's no transcendent QB in the draft this year. And the tutelage of Rattler depends on who the next coach is.

 

[44slayer]

The future QB of this franchise, isnt on the roster. Most of the future of this franchise isnt on the roster. But theres a whole lotta past on the roster. So it makes no sense to restructure and kick more of the past into the future. Let him play in 25, then send him packing.

I sense though, Loomis is going to do just that. He wont be able to resist the restructure. Mash his head, and the future of the franchise against the wall over and over again until he gets a different result. But the results, just keep getting worse. We are in a terrible position as a franchise with Loomis as the GM.

Rizzi won every game he played and lost every game he didn't play.

Nothing says he has to take a pay cut, he's played hurt and given his body and soul to help this team win.

I probably wouldn't take a pay cut either.

Misleading. He lost against the Rams, the only team with a winning record he played with Carr. He beat 3 teams that finished a combined 14-37.

That is the same old story. 3 straight years we beat some terrible teams late and it provides some misleading excuses.

We still didnt beat anyone we shouldnt have. There was no difference between Rizzi and Allen, outside of the yelling. We still beat bad teams, and lost to decent teams. No change. And interims rarely (3 times) get the full time job. You definitely dont give a guy who was 3-5 the permanent HC position.