Didn't have this many "come to Jesus" moments under Payton (2 Viewers)

[los226]

It’s the opposite of the problem we had with Payton. He couldn’t field a defense worth a darn and needed someone like GW and DA that are elite coordinators.

DA needs an elite offensive coordinator. But he also needs a QB too, Derek Carr is as mediocre a QB as Pete is a coordinator. I still feel Gruden could save the season, but I’m thinking he’s not interested in a full time OC job with his lawsuit case.

 

[Broad St. Saint]

I remember there were a few times were the fanbase was ready to fire Payton in that ‘14-‘16 timeframe.

Maybe but I remember more concern with scouting and player acquisition in that period than with coaching, though it would be interesting to find out how much influence Payton had on drafting during that period compared to the GM and the DC -- the Saints used a lot of draft capital on defense in those years, probably figuring that with Payton and Brees they could still put together a solid offense.

From 2012 to 2016, the leading contributors to the Saints over those 5 drafts were probably, Michael Thomas, Terron Armstead and Andrus Peat. That's not great when you're going 7-9 and picking in the top half of the draft. That era also featured big paydays for dubious and low producing (after the payday) players like Junior Galette (serious issues going back to college) and Brandon Browner (now an inmate and felon).

 

[Saint KayBee]

Maybe but I remember more concern with scouting and player acquisition in that period than with coaching, though it would be interesting to find out how much influence Payton had on drafting during that period compared to the GM and the DC -- the Saints used a lot of draft capital on defense in those years, probably figuring that with Payton and Brees they could still put together a solid offense.

From 2012 to 2016, the leading contributors to the Saints over those 5 drafts were probably, Michael Thomas, Terron Armstead and Andrus Peat. That's not great when you're going 7-9 and picking in the top half of the draft. That era also featured big paydays for dubious and low producing (after the payday) players like Junior Galette (serious issues going back to college) and Brandon Browner (now an inmate and felon).

This can be quantified.

2013 draft: 3 defense, 2 offense. Still feeling the sting of the 2012 repercussions, so not really upset here. Got some good play out of 4/5 draftees. The late-round flyer didn’t last. Happens.

2014 draft: 4 defense, 2 offense. One OP was Cooks, the other never even got a Wikipedia page. None of the DPs selected lasted even three years in the NFL. Whoops.

2015 draft: 6 defense, 3 offense. One OP was a quarterback, one is Andrus Peat. Of the 6 DPs, one got a second contract with the team.

2016 draft: 3 defense, 2 offense. This is the CGM draft. Quality was high where quantity was low. Rankins, Bell, and Onyemata contributed to some winning football.

2017 draft: sizzle. 2018 draft: fizzle. The highest AV from 2018 is an 18. The lowest AV from the 2017 draft is a 17. Al-Quadin Muhammad was about as good for the Colts as Davenport was for the Saints. Rick Leonard. 2018 was the first time the draft capital tilted to the offense’s favor, and even then it was 4:3. Rick Leonard.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

and then it hit me,


That's the problem, we lost our best "teacher" on the offensive side of the ball in Payton.

Think about it, we have WR's running the wrong routes, Olineman having false starts, guys not seeing the routes correctly. These are all things that during practice, are potentially noticeable and talked about, and a coach would use them as "teaching moments" barring an eye for detail. Pete's not teaching well, the play-calling is roughly about 30% of the problem.

Anytime you got Jameis looking like a better teacher/coach on the sideline (no direspect) but it says something

 

[boutte]

You're not wrong and the responsibility for incompetence is shared between he and Pete. He for not making a decision, Pete for being inept.

I don't blame Pete for anything. He told us he didn't think he was cut out for the job. And he proved it last year and we still didn't figure it out.
When somebody tells you who they are believe them. All the hate for the guy is uncalled for.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I don't blame Pete for anything. He told us he didn't think he was cut out for the job. And he proved it last year and we still didn't figure it out.
When somebody tells you who they are believe them. All the hate for the guy is uncalled for.

Fair enough, but he also didn't have to accept the job and could have stepped down by now or passed on duties like Frank Reich just did. So yeah, he's not absolved from some of the blame.

 

[boutte]

Pass on Gruden. The game has passed him by. Gimme Ben Johnson from the Lions.

But we need somebody now. Bring him in as an adviser and if doesn't work out, here's your check, see you later.

 

[boutte]

Fair enough, but he also didn't have to accept the job and could have stepped down by now or passed on duties like Frank Reich just did. So yeah, he's not absolved from some of the blame.

If someone offered you a job you weren't qualified and you told them that you weren't qualified but they offered you the job anyway, would you turn down a sweet, big money contract?

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

If someone offered you a job you weren't qualified and you told them that you weren't qualified but they offered you the job anyway, would you turn down a sweet, big money contract?

Yeah. In life I've learned, if you have to second guess something, don't do it...or you'll be miserable doing it..thus making everyone else around you miserable.

 

[saintsmarchin]

SP prime.. before NFC Champopnship debacle would have thos team undefeated right now

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

We didn't have to have come to Jesus moments with CSP....because if you messed up you saw "Jesus" waiting for your arse on the sidelines

All you get now is a pat on the back...and a "aight now"

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

We didn't have to have come to Jesus moments with CSP....because if you messed up you saw "Jesus" waiting for your arse on the sidelines

All you get now is a pat on the back...and a "aight now"

Pete Pats?

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Pete Pats?

Yep...it's very subtle

 

[gregh]

Why? Because since the mid-2000‘s his offenses have sucked at scoring points and especially in the red zone.

I realize a lot of you guys get all wooly for Chucky, but he is a has-been, caricature at this point in time. He has a losing record since 2002 (69-82) and as noted above, runs an offense that is dated and hasn’t been proficient at scoring since before Twitter and Facebook were things.

He’s Ditka with worse baggage.

you arent getting anyone any better bc everyone is already on a team

 

[Taker597]

You okay @ELLIASJWILLIAMS ? Seems you're having a mental breakdown trying to comprehend how bad Pete and our NFL $100+ million dollar offense is.