Directors or actors/actresses who "didn't get it" (1 Viewer)

[Sun Wukong]

No movie is a solo endeavor- Lucas had lots and lots of help for the OT (Lawrence Kasdan, the editor whose name I forgot and the actors in particular)

We’re in sticky area about knowing material and being able to articulate it
I’ve known ballet divas and math geniuses who could do the thing but not explain the thing

And then there’s the example of someone like Francis Ford Coppola - who went from genius to pedestrian- I don’t think he forgot how to direct, he just had enough juice that he didn’t want to listen to the smaller voices that every creative really should listen to

There are a lot of people who have pointed out that Marcia Lucas' (George's wife and editor) influence on at least the first movie, if not the whole original trilogy, has been vastly underplayed. She at the very least saved Star Wars/A New Hope in the editing bay based on the stories that have been told (she wasn't the original editor, but the rough cut that came in was so terrible George fired the guy that did it and had her come in and redo it), and she was an informal editor on a lot of George's story ideas (she advocated Obi-Wan dying on the Death Star when George originally had him live, for example). They divorced in 1983 and he seemed to lose something after that.

Anyway, this one isn't so much an example of "source material" but literally a director not understanding his own movie. If you watch the director's cut of "Donnie Darko," it is clear that Richard Kelly had no forking clue what made the original movie a success in the first place and that it was very likely saved by editing and studio notes. His subsequent career would further support that idea. It's really one of the only director's cuts I've seen that not only didn't improve the original, but actively made it worse.

 

[Sun Wukong]

some would argue both George Lucas and Gene Roddenberry

Starting with the Motion Picture Roddenberry was basically given a ceremonial title and role and others were tasked with keeping him away and his involvement/interference to a minimum (for all the original cast movies he kept pushing a time travel movie where Kirk would have to be the one to assassinate JFK in order to preserve the timeline (basically a big budget, big screen update of City on the Edge of Forever)

Roddenberry is a weird case where in between the cancellation of Star Trek and it's revival, he really drank his own Kool-Aid and became convinced he was some kind of visionary futurist who had a social obligation to lead us into a bright new world via his unparalleled story telling. He really did develop his own sort of cult of personality, and he was both the leader and biggest member.

After they got him away from the movies, he was directly running Star Trek: The Next Generation for the first couple of seasons, and the stories the writers tell about the narrative handcuffs he placed on them are nuts. Anything that indicated the Federation was less than an extreme Utopian ideal was forbidden and they all said that it made writing crew interactions almost impossible because they couldn't do conflict.

Finally he got "promoted" (removed) out of the showrunner spot and they gained more freedom and the show suddenly got much better. He died in 1991 and subsequent Trek really ignored all his Utopian mandates. Deep Space Nine* especially. Benjamin Sisko alone probably had him rolling in his grave.

*My personal favorite ST show ever.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Roddenberry is a weird case where in between the cancellation of Star Trek and it's revival, he really drank his own Kool-Aid and became convinced he was some kind of visionary futurist who had a social obligation to lead us into a bright new world via his unparalleled story telling. He really did develop his own sort of cult of personality, and he was both the leader and biggest member.

After they got him away from the movies, he was directly running Star Trek: The Next Generation for the first couple of seasons, and the stories the writers tell about the narrative handcuffs he placed on them are nuts. Anything that indicated the Federation was less than an extreme Utopian ideal was forbidden and they all said that it made writing crew interactions almost impossible because they couldn't do conflict.

Finally he got "promoted" (removed) out of the showrunner spot and they gained more freedom and the show suddenly got much better. He died in 1991 and subsequent Trek really ignored all his Utopian mandates. Deep Space Nine* especially. Benjamin Sisko alone probably had him rolling in his grave.

*My personal favorite ST show ever.

Bummer
I never knew that stuff about Gene

 

[livefromDC]

Despite the author of Ready Player One being the screenwriter and Steven Spielberg being the director for the silver screen adaptation, Ready Player One was devoid of all the things that made the book incredibly satisfying. The biggest issue though was probably nerfing the novel's hero. Wade Watts went from being a basically a genius who has to rely on his own wits to overcome poverty and homelessness to a kid who just happens to stumble on to something that helps him meet some really cool kids that end up having to rescue him. He went from being brilliant and self reliant to just plain lucky. Never have I looked forward to a movie so much. It seemed to have have done everything right. Director...perfect choice, the best choice. The author co-wrote the screenplay. Casting was solid. The movie was the biggest theatre letdown I ever experienced. I was in a room full of book fans at a debut showing who were all audibly disappointed with each scene.

I've heard that people who didn't read the book found it enjoyable. I just wish I could forget this movie. Can't wait until I can tell AI to make an animated version of the book so that I can enjoy what could have been an amazing experience.

 

[tenordas]

Anyway, this one isn't so much an example of "source material" but literally a director not understanding his own movie. If you watch the director's cut of "Donnie Darko," it is clear that Richard Kelly had no forking clue what made the original movie a success in the first place and that it was very likely saved by editing and studio notes. His subsequent career would further support that idea. It's really one of the only director's cuts I've seen that not only didn't improve the original, but actively made it worse.

Speaking of director's cuts, and going back to my original reason for the thread, the "director's cut" of Blade Runner is notably worse than the original theatrical release, IMHO. I was excited to see it, but very disappointed once I saw it. It took out key elements and inserted some nonsense that, while not completely ruining the film, did detract from it greatly.
Then there was a "final version" that changed hardly anything from that bad director's cut.
I'd love to have as copy of the original, not either of the messed up re-edits.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Despite the author of Ready Player One being the screenwriter and Steven Spielberg being the director for the silver screen adaptation, Ready Player One was devoid of all the things that made the book incredibly satisfying. The biggest issue though was probably nerfing the novel's hero. Wade Watts went from being a basically a genius who has to rely on his own wits to overcome poverty and homelessness to a kid who just happens to stumble on to something that helps him meet some really cool kids that end up having to rescue him. He went from being brilliant and self reliant to just plain lucky. Never have I looked forward to a movie so much. It seemed to have have done everything right. Director...perfect choice, the best choice. The author co-wrote the screenplay. Casting was solid. The movie was the biggest theatre letdown I ever experienced. I was in a room full of book fans at a debut showing who were all audibly disappointed with each scene.

I've heard that people who didn't read the book found it enjoyable. I just wish I could forget this movie. Can't wait until I can tell AI to make an animated version of the book so that I can enjoy what could have been an amazing experience.

I am surprised at how that movie turned out, especially with Spielberg at the helm

But you're right, people who never read the book like it a whole lot more

 

[Optimus Prime]

Roddenberry is a weird case where in between the cancellation of Star Trek and it's revival, he really drank his own Kool-Aid and became convinced he was some kind of visionary futurist who had a social obligation to lead us into a bright new world via his unparalleled story telling. He really did develop his own sort of cult of personality, and he was both the leader and biggest member.

After they got him away from the movies, he was directly running Star Trek: The Next Generation for the first couple of seasons, and the stories the writers tell about the narrative handcuffs he placed on them are nuts. Anything that indicated the Federation was less than an extreme Utopian ideal was forbidden and they all said that it made writing crew interactions almost impossible because they couldn't do conflict.

Finally he got "promoted" (removed) out of the showrunner spot and they gained more freedom and the show suddenly got much better. He died in 1991 and subsequent Trek really ignored all his Utopian mandates. Deep Space Nine* especially. Benjamin Sisko alone probably had him rolling in his grave.

*My personal favorite ST show ever.

When he passed in 91 it was right before Undiscovered Country was released (in fact he saw a rough cut of the movie and passed a few days after)

There were all the expected gushing remembrances 'Farewell to the Great Bird of the Galaxy", created something that's beloved by generations and millions, inspired many to get into either Sci Fi, Hollywood or science, etc.

Years later I read articles that saying some that were involved (I don't remember if it was the movies, TNG or both) who felt conflicted and guilty at the time.

Not because that wasn't true, it was, but what was also true was that they basically stole Star Trek from him, cast him out and ignored him

 

[Optimus Prime]

There are a lot of people who have pointed out that Marcia Lucas' (George's wife and editor) influence on at least the first movie, if not the whole original trilogy, has been vastly underplayed. She at the very least saved Star Wars/A New Hope in the editing bay based on the stories that have been told (she wasn't the original editor, but the rough cut that came in was so terrible George fired the guy that did it and had her come in and redo it), and she was an informal editor on a lot of George's story ideas (she advocated Obi-Wan dying on the Death Star when George originally had him live, for example). They divorced in 1983 and he seemed to lose something after that.

VICE's series Icons Unearthed did Star Wars and Marcia Lucas was much more involved than I realized, who know what would have happened without her involvement

So, Marcia was a huge influence on the original Trilogy, George was in total control of the prequels and everyone hates them, and so much of the lore of Star Wars now comes the all the books, comics, games, TV shows that Lucas had almost nothing to do with (if anything at all)

 

[Sun Wukong]

When he passed in 91 it was right before Undiscovered Country was released (in fact he saw a rough cut of the movie and passed a few days after)

There were all the expected gushing remembrances 'Farewell to the Great Bird of the Galaxy", created something that's beloved by generations and millions, inspired many to get into either Sci Fi, Hollywood or science, etc.

Years later I read articles that saying some that were involved (I don't remember if it was the movies, TNG or both) who felt conflicted and guilty at the time.

Not because that wasn't true, it was, but what was also true was that they basically stole Star Trek from him, cast him out and ignored him

I'm sure they did, but his vision for what Star Trek was had turned into a proselytizing and anodyne approach that lacked all of the adventure, social commentary, and spirit of the original. Those first couple of seasons of TNG are awful. He wasn't making good TV anymore.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I said it in the HP thread and it's definitely worth mentioning here.

Michael Gambon as Albus Dumbledore. It's like someone told him Albus Dumbledore was an amazing, yet kooky old wizard who aspired to be the Minister of Magic, but had to settle on being headmaster at Hogwarts even though he finds kids to be rather annoying and somewhat untrustworthy.



He got better in the movies following his debut, but still...

Richard Harris' Dumbledore was miles better than Gambon

 

[sfidc3]

Not sure that this is exactly the same thing, but I know that Paul Verhoeven intended the Starship Troopers movie to be a parody of the book to demonstrate his dislike for the views expressed in the book, but the movie he made didn't end up like a parody and people did not take it as a parody. Though you don't necessarily like the Federation in the movie, it's hard not to think that what they were doing was at lest to some extent right and necessary in the face of the annihilation of the species.

I'm going to have to disagree here, I think it was a very good parody, sometimes they are over the top and a bit cheesy but I really loved that about ST....Great movie IMO.....

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Richard Harris' Dumbledore was miles better than Gambon

Both are very good

 

[Optimus Prime]

guess this is the best place for this

very interesting video about the 'toxic fans' are the ones who don't 'get it' and the studios are scared of them

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

Despite the author of Ready Player One being the screenwriter and Steven Spielberg being the director for the silver screen adaptation, Ready Player One was devoid of all the things that made the book incredibly satisfying. The biggest issue though was probably nerfing the novel's hero. Wade Watts went from being a basically a genius who has to rely on his own wits to overcome poverty and homelessness to a kid who just happens to stumble on to something that helps him meet some really cool kids that end up having to rescue him. He went from being brilliant and self reliant to just plain lucky. Never have I looked forward to a movie so much. It seemed to have have done everything right. Director...perfect choice, the best choice. The author co-wrote the screenplay. Casting was solid. The movie was the biggest theatre letdown I ever experienced. I was in a room full of book fans at a debut showing who were all audibly disappointed with each scene.

I've heard that people who didn't read the book found it enjoyable. I just wish I could forget this movie. Can't wait until I can tell AI to make an animated version of the book so that I can enjoy what could have been an amazing experience.

I actually enjoyed Ready Player One (the movie), and I thought they captured some aspects of the story, and even made some positive changes - like inclluding EVH whom the novel doesn't even mention - but I totally understand the point you are making..

First off, no Tomb of Horrors. I bet this had something to do with the license to whoever owns the remnants of TSR, but they could have done something in a similar vein, without explicitly mentioning IP, like Stranger Things managed to do.

But on top of that, the finding of the initial key felt cheap. They did try to emulate Wayne's "research" by him going into the archives and getting the hint (go backwards), but changing it to a "race" itself felt like just trying to appeal to a younger audience.

 

[sfidc3]

Despite the author of Ready Player One being the screenwriter and Steven Spielberg being the director for the silver screen adaptation, Ready Player One was devoid of all the things that made the book incredibly satisfying. The biggest issue though was probably nerfing the novel's hero. Wade Watts went from being a basically a genius who has to rely on his own wits to overcome poverty and homelessness to a kid who just happens to stumble on to something that helps him meet some really cool kids that end up having to rescue him. He went from being brilliant and self reliant to just plain lucky. Never have I looked forward to a movie so much. It seemed to have have done everything right. Director...perfect choice, the best choice. The author co-wrote the screenplay. Casting was solid. The movie was the biggest theatre letdown I ever experienced. I was in a room full of book fans at a debut showing who were all audibly disappointed with each scene.

I've heard that people who didn't read the book found it enjoyable. I just wish I could forget this movie. Can't wait until I can tell AI to make an animated version of the book so that I can enjoy what could have been an amazing experience.

Fun fact, the asian kid in the movie is the nephew of one of my cousin's best friends.....