Dylann Roof sentenced to death for Charleston church massacre (2 Viewers)

[cdogg]

There are. Suicide a much bigger problem than you think it is.
https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/


Note those numbers only count our country. It's a huge problem world-wide.

Supposedly, the death penalty is a deterrent, but it hasn't proven to be so. A psychopath doesn't care about dying, and people who commit crimes of passion are so caught up in their emotion, such a threat not only isn't a deterrent, but may even be something they desire.

I didn't say no one committed suicide, but if death was better than prison, than every lifer would off themself, and no one would fight against the death penalty in court, they'd welcome it over a life sentence. I'm not arguing for or against the death penalty, just against what I consider a misguided opinion that life, even in prison, is worse than death.

 

[Brennan77]

I'm not for the death penalty. Perhaps in another time of history in which we could not secure, with certainty, the safety and well-being of the public, you could make the argument. But this isn't that time. Nothing we can do will bring back the lives of the victims. Killing the guilty does not bring justice. Justice, in this case, is not possible by temporal means.

I will admit, however, that good and reasonable people can disagree. I have two friends who were very closely affected by heinous acts of murder. They have similar backgrounds and are VERY well educated in Catholic theology, philosophy and moral teaching. One actively protested the state's desire to seek the death penalty for the man who hurt his family. The other actively wishes the death penalty had been available. Both make good, logical arguments for their case. I'd like to think I'd err on the side of life in this situation, however.

 

[Heathen Saint]

Death is worse than life, even in prison. If it wasn't, why would the death penalty be a question? Prison would be the worst sentence you could give, but it isn't. Death is. If death was better than life in prison, there would be suicides by the hundreds daily.

Well, in the end it's really just your opinion that life in prison is worse than the death sentence. Not trying to sound rude, I just think we can't really know. I think you'd find many of those convicted in these cases would prefer death.

 

[Krewe of Clyde's]

He certainly deserves the death penalty and I believe he should get what is coming to him.

 

[PayOrPlay]

As a general proposition, I do not favor the routine imposition of the death penalty--not so much because of any great sympathy for souls of the convicted killers, but mainly because I think it demeans us to have hundreds of people, mostly taken from the poorest and least privileged segments of our society, sitting on death rows, while executions become perceived as everyweek events. Not to mention the pragmatic reasons: the excessive costs of death penalty trials and death row facilities, the arbitrary and inherently biased nature of the sentencing procedures, and the sordid details of modern drug executions. I can contemplate extreme, rare cases where I might find an execution appropriate, but on balance I tend to think we're better off without it.

About 15 years ago, I found myself sitting in the jury box, among the last cut of jurors for what was apparently going to be a drive-by murder case, with special circumstances alleged, and the thought of sitting on a case where capital punishment was theoretically possible had me sweating bullets. I was extremely relieved when the prosecution used one of its peremptory challenges to toss me off the jury, probably because of a prosecutorial rule of thumb to try to limit the numbers of lawyers sitting on juries. (And ultimately, hours after reading the charge with special circumstances, the judge mentioned that the prosecution was not looking for a capital sentence in our case. I gather than this sort of prosecutorial avoidance is not something you see a lot of in southern courtrooms.)

One of the many referenda on last November's California ballot would have abolished the death penalty statewide; I voted for this, but ultimately it was defeated 54-46, while a competing proposition that purports to speed up the process and reduce post-conviction challenges to death sentences, passed 51-49. This was just about the only non-"liberal" result of the last election in our contrarian state.

Having said all that, I can't fault the Roof jury one bit. I don't know for certain if I would have had the capacity to do that, but I can certainly understand why they did.

 

[Jortizcardona]

No death penalty. Nowadays they almost have to put you under anesthesia "so you don't suffer". So actually you go on a trip, a one way trip anyway. But I believe death penalty to be the easy way out. Actually, you know what, I would let the convict choose. You want death penalty or life in prison? Then do the opposite. For the people that say "how about the innocent that get convicted ", I favor these measures in cases like this where there is no doubt and no remorse.

 

[UTSaintsFan]

He went into a church where people shook his hand and welcomed him - then he murdered them solely for the color of their skin. He's a tumor on society.

I don't see the purpose of keeping him alive.

 

[Joe OKC]

What is your opinion on the death penalty? Should we as a country have the right to kill another human being as a matter of principle?

You're danged right we should. And we should also bring back hanging, the guillotine, the firing squad and public execution.

Might start deterring some of these people from doing things like this in the future...

 

[Semper]

I think the death penalty isn't really a deterrent because it is carried out so infrequently. Chicago had 762 murders last year alone, while nationally there were 16 executions. Personal opinion here, but I'd imagine if there were 700 executions last year there would be less murder on the streets.



<img src="http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/images/exo_year.png?now" width=750>

 

[mt15]

From my understanding the threat of an execution has never been found by social scientists to be a deterrent to murder. People who murder just don't really think about it that way. They are generally in a fit of rage or feel compelled by mental illness or some other pathology.

Since it's generally cheaper to keep someone in prison than execute them, and there is the chance of a wrongful conviction (not in this case), I'm generally against the death penalty. But I do see why people could feel otherwise.

 

[Galbreath34]

To me five things stand out for me preferring life without parole to the death penalty:

• Science looking at every known society or population in all of known human history has shown no deterrent effect ever for capital punishment on crime
• If I had to choose death or living the rest of my life in prison I'd choose death every single time as less suffering.
• Human governments, courts and juries make mistakes (whether honest or through corruption). You can let a person out of prison.
• If you're a free country that allows appeals and requires reasonable safeguards against the last bullet, then it's FAR cheaper to keep someone incarcerated for life than to manage a fair appeals process and an expensive humane execution process.
• The types of people who commit the very worst of crimes see execution as a goal and a heroic end, so it becomes a kind of reward.

There are a lot of people that oppose it on moral grounds, and if it came to it I might fall into that camp. Still the pragmatic and/or scientific grounds for opposing it grab me before I have to fall back on feelings about morality.

 

[Galbreath34]

People who aren't criminals think the death penalty should inspire fear and be a deterrent. People who murder in passion or in cold blood don't think like you do.

It's like saying a war on drugs with harsh sentencing will lower usage. Despite the huge penalties against marijuana use and treating it as a worse drug than meth on the DEA schedules, in every state where marijuana has been legalized studies have shown the exact same number of people that smoked weed before still smoke it. What does that mean? It means the laws had zero impact on people who wanted to smoke pot. Suburban churchgoers and tea totalers think and "common sense" tells you that fear and criminalization will reduce usage. All those are proven wrong. There was no boost of people who wanted to smoke, but refrained because of the law. Everyone who wanted to smoke already did.

Just because you think something makes sense or should have an effect you'd expect to be universal doesn't make it so. Check out the science, not the feelings.

 

[Semper]

I'm not really sure what criminals think. I know to me the idea of death would deter me. I also agree about courts getting it wrong. I'm of the opinion that only people caught red handed such as this animal should be getting the death penalty. I have never understood the cost thing. Why is it more expensive to terminate someone vs keeping them in prison. There is no reason to do anything for this guy other than remove him from the court room and end him. Let's go back to a short rope and a tall tree, I don't care if this guy suffers. Look at the pain he has caused so many people. if he struggles at the end of a rope for a few minutes I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[crosswatt]

I'm not a unwavering supporter of the death penalty. I don't think it should be used often, if at all. I also don't think that it is in any way a deterrent to crime.

I just personally don't want to share a planet with this guy. He walked into a church, and murdered people who showed him love and compassion on a such level that he made the statement that he almost didn't go through with it. But he did, and is on record as saying that he isn't sorry that he did so. Moral reservations and joking aside, I just think he needs to be ended.

 

[Galbreath34]

It's more expensive because of the safeguards around appeals and making sure you have the right guy and have given due process.

For a conservative look at the reasons and the process: https://www.themarshallproject.org/...-the-death-penalty-is-becoming-more-expensive

The underlying reasoning for being cautious and thorough with appeals have to do with our sense of due process and our experience and history with hasty and bad convictions. No one wants to find out they lynched the 19 year old maniac who came out and confessed and did interviews about how he hated all the people he gunned down and would do it all again only to find out later that DNA showed a 43 year old businessman shot up the joint when investigating him doing a second heinous crime like it 5 years later. For all kinds of reasons you don't want a quick show of hands and a lynching of the wrong guy. Some are moral, some are practical like getting sued by the family for negligence by the prosecutor, etc.