Elon Musk makes $43 Billion offer for private buyout of Twitter (3 Viewers)

[St. Widge]

Well, taken to a philosophical extreme, that’s true in all cases, including all forms of altruism. But there are far too many daily examples of natural human goodness for such “self-interest” to be a simple explanation for such aberrant behavior.

And that’s what it is: aberrant human behavior, not natural human behavior.

It's beyond the scope of this thread, but I don't think altruism really exists. It think the vast majority of times people do good things for others only if it has some benefit to them even if it's just that it makes them feel good about themselves.

 

[St. Widge]

anecdotally, I would argue that post-Katrina was probably the most humane this region has been in awhile
most disasters have people joining together, no?

and also

I don't think anyone was particularly humane and many took advantage of the situation for their own personal gain and/or took it as an opportunity to exert power over others. For example, the Danziger Bridge shootings and various minor and major fraud schemes. Insurance companies denied claims they shouldn't and homeowners made fraudulent claims.

I mean, thousands were left on roofs and interstates because people, particularly those in the government, didn't care enough about their suffering. And the aid only came later due to guilt and political pressure. I would not call that particularly humane.


But, we aren't going to agree on this and we have gone over this before.

 

[St. Widge]

i don't think people are inherently selfish. i think its more learned selfishness. there are a LOT of people who give their lives to helping others without that selfishness.
But i guess that depends on what you mean my selfish. i mean sure people can be selfish in a minute way, but not necissarily in a way that affects others. there is a big difference..

I think it's the opposite. Society tries teaches us that self-sacrifice and being selfless is a good thing and we feel good about doing it as a result. I think if it were innate in us, we would all be doing it all the time, but we don't.

I do find it odd that a group of people who more or less think the world has gone to sheet and is only getting worse, which I think is an apt description of most of the regular posters on the EE, believe that people are basically good. I wish i felt that way, but I just don't see it in people. In many ways I think we are where we are because the people in charge have used those base human instincts to gain favor and political support.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

I think it's the opposite. Society tries teaches us that self-sacrifice and being selfless is a good thing and we feel good about doing it as a result. I think if it were innate in us, we would all be doing it all the time, but we don't.

I do find it odd that a group of people who more or less think the world has gone to sheet and is only getting worse, which I think is an apt description of most of the regular posters on the EE, believe that people are basically good. I wish i felt that way, but I just don't see it in people. In many ways I think we are where we are because the people in charge have used those base human instincts to gain favor and political support.

the more the world is going to sheet, the more you see unselfish acts from people.

 

[St. Widge]

the more the world is going to sheet, the more you see unselfish acts from people.

I guess I just don't see that happening. But I'm glad someone does.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

i don't think people are inherently selfish. i think its more learned selfishness. there are a LOT of people who give their lives to helping others without that selfishness.
But i guess that depends on what you mean my selfish. i mean sure people can be selfish in a minute way, but not necissarily in a way that affects others. there is a big difference..

you're correct - hopefully Widge gets here eventually

 

[HoustonSaint68]

It's beyond the scope of this thread, but I don't think altruism really exists. It think the vast majority of times people do good things for others only if it has some benefit to them even if it's just that it makes them feel good about themselves.

Well, as I alluded, that’s the old Philosophy 101 starting point but, as you said, a true Socratic discussion is beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[DaveXA]

It's beyond the scope of this thread, but I don't think altruism really exists. It think the vast majority of times people do good things for others only if it has some benefit to them even if it's just that it makes them feel good about themselves.

How do you explain those occasions when people truly give of themselves without expecting anything in return? I've done that more than a few times in my life. People are more than capable of selfless acts.

 

[Sun Wukong]

It's beyond the scope of this thread, but I don't think altruism really exists. It think the vast majority of times people do good things for others only if it has some benefit to them even if it's just that it makes them feel good about themselves.

That's an absolutely insane, off the charts level of cynicism. I can't imagine going through life actually believing that. Sorry for whatever has happened in your life that's led you to that point. Genuinely.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

That's an absolutely insane, off the charts level of cynicism. I can't imagine going through life actually believing that. Sorry for whatever has happened in your life that's led you to that point. Genuinely.

Do you give money to the poor to lift them up or to make yourself feel better?
It’s obviously a rhetorical question bc there’s no way to real tease out an answer even if we could agree on terms
Tons of data and anecdotes can support either idea
I tend to think early humans could never have survived if we were inherently selfish
Others think selfishness is innately tied to self preservation
Both are right bc we are both individual (probably) and social (obviously) creatures; and we’re more complex than the binary of altruistic/selfish

 

[HoustonSaint68]

How do you explain those occasions when people truly give of themselves without expecting anything in return? I've done that more than a few times in my life. People are more than capable of selfless acts.

Perhaps not proof, but coincidentally anecdotal, my wife lost her wedding ring and her precious mother’s ring yesterday. Over the years I’ve offered many times to get her “upgrades” and she’s always refused - new rings “just wouldn’t be the same”.

Well, we found them today, turned in voluntarily by a busboy at a Mexican restaurant which was her last hope for finding them (given all of the places she visited yesterday). He spoke next to no English, but his happiness was clearly evident on his face when we claimed the rings. This was before he was offered a reward which, by the way, he tried over and over to turn down through his translating coworker.

Imagine what his life is like day-to-day, especially in these times, with no English at his disposal and likely peanuts for pay for his “low level” job.

But he’s not a drug dealer or a criminal or a rapist. He’s just a guy who did the right thing because it was the right thing to do, and did so with a genuine happiness for us when there was no hint of a reward.

These little anecdotes are all around us - we just can’t or don’t see them as much as we should.