Elvis' 2025 cap and roster cleanup proposal (27 Viewers)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I think the misconception is that I proposed to tear it down. The plan I suggested cut 5 total players in 2025. One who is in reality is retiring, Ram. Two that have under performed, Williams and Cedrick Wilson. Two that have expensive contracts that will be more expensive in 2026 if they were restructured, Carr and Cam Jordan who is going to be 36 years old. The other old players contracts will void on their own next year and we would be free from being $54m over the cap and free from an aging roster in 13 months.

There is no gutting of the team going on with the plan I laid out and definitely no tanking. It's simply not going all in on an old fan favorite player and an over priced QB.

went back and read your proposal to make sure I wasn’t perceiving it wrong. I understand a little better in that it’s not a full tear down, but it is a refusal to be tied to Carr beyond this year and thus the other moves/extensions are made based off that. All for the sake of gaining/ clearing space by June 1st and then having a cleaner 2026.

I still think the issue is that getting money after June 1st doesn’t allow for improvement prior to that.

The Saints are likely to want to and will be players in FA so they’ll need that money b4 June1

 

[Elvis]

Let's use this as an example. They cost much less when they were signed and the salary cap was lower. They each accounted for a smaller percentage of the salary cap when they were signed. That combined cost of $61.8m this year is better than if the Saints would have assumed it 3 years ago when the cap the much lower. That would have cost the Saints players 3 years ago because they wouldn't have had nearly as much cap space. Instead of getting this cap hit then when it's less manageable for 3 significant team pieces. You assume it now when it's actually a much lower percentage of your cap.

The PROBLEM is NOT that the Saints gave out these contracts. The problem is that they gave them to extremely old veterans and an offensive weapon who is amazing but would not have demanded nearly that much on the open market. The Saints made bad personnel decisions with those contracts. If those contracts are Hendrickson, Baun, and Chauncey Gardner and Ramczyk doens't have degenerative condition, the team is better and still in a great position to add players to a solid nucleus.

I don't need a lesson on how it works. I know how it works. I hate how it works. Because we DID sign those contracts for those old guys and we ARE stuck with those players while they are in decline. You can't separate the way the team spends money and who they spend it on. They are interlinked.

You seem to think that the whole thing is about money when it's really about roster flexibility and sustained success. We all watched Demario, Tyrann and Cam lose a step last year. All of them. And because of the cap management system in place they will more than likely ALL be on the team this year too while being another year older and likely to lose another step.

Most other teams leave 10% or so of the cap to allow for adjustments like this. I'm not even asking for 10%. I'd settle for 2% or heck even -5%. Only 3 teams are beyond -5% of the cap, the Bills (~-6%, the Browns (~-11%) and the Saints at -20%. You may think that's it's fine and normal, but no other team is doing it like this and the closest to it is the Browns. The Browns.

 

[StudioSaint]

went back and read your proposal to make sure I wasn’t perceiving it wrong. I understand a little better in that it’s not a full tear down, but it is a refusal to be tied to Carr beyond this year and thus the other moves/extensions are made based off that. All for the sake of gaining/ clearing space by June 1st and then having a cleaner 2026.

I still think the issue is that getting money after June 1st doesn’t allow for improvement prior to that.

The Saints are likely to want to and will be players in FA so they’ll need that money b4 June1

That's the part I don't see the Saints doing. They always like to shore up the team in free agency before going into the draft. They can't do that if they cut Carr with a June 1st designation.

 

[Elvis]

went back and read your proposal to make sure I wasn’t perceiving it wrong. I understand a little better in that it’s not a full tear down, but it is a refusal to be tied to Carr beyond this year and thus the other moves/extensions are made based off that. All for the sake of gaining/ clearing space by June 1st and then having a cleaner 2026.

I still think the issue is that getting money after June 1st doesn’t allow for improvement prior to that.

The Saints are likely to want to and will be players in FA so they’ll need that money b4 June1

Many of the other moves are taking already guaranteed money and moving it to roster bonuses that will be paid off in March of 2026 OR extending players that are young guys we'd want to extend anyway.

The Saints might want to be players in free agency this year, but they really weren't last year. Chase Young on a contract that consisted of mostly void years that we're paying for in dead money this year. And then a few guys on very small contracts. That's all we did.

And nothing prevents the team for "coming to terms" on free agent contracts and signing them in June when the cap money clears. We do that for rookies every single year as well.

 

[Rouxble]

went back and read your proposal to make sure I wasn’t perceiving it wrong. I understand a little better in that it’s not a full tear down, but it is a refusal to be tied to Carr beyond this year and thus the other moves/extensions are made based off that. All for the sake of gaining/ clearing space by June 1st and then having a cleaner 2026.

I still think the issue is that getting money after June 1st doesn’t allow for improvement prior to that.

The Saints are likely to want to and will be players in FA so they’ll need that money b4 June1

Loomis could always work out a deal with Carr to lower his cap hit and make a cut feasible. We would have to make it worth his while, as I don’t get the impression he will modify his contract for free. Pay him a bonus, cut his salary to the minimum, and add a poison pill to his contract that forces us to release him.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Loomis could always work out a deal with Carr to lower his cap hit and make a cut feasible. We would have to make it worth his while, as I don’t get the impression he will modify his contract for free. Pay him a bonus, cut his salary to the minimum, and add a poison pill to his contract that forces us to release him.

Sounds like a middle ground to what Elvis is proposing, you move on from Carr and you don’t have to wait for June 1 to have access to funds.

 

[Elvis]

Loomis could always work out a deal with Carr to lower his cap hit and make a cut feasible. We would have to make it worth his while, as I don’t get the impression he will modify his contract for free. Pay him a bonus, cut his salary to the minimum, and add a poison pill to his contract that forces us to release him.

I don't think there is any real way to lower his cap hit. If he is cut $40m of his dead money cap hit is from money already sitting in his bank account. He is only owed $10m in new money from a roster bonus that was guaranteed in March of 2024. I guess there is the possibility he would forfeit that, but I don't know why he would.

 

[StudioSaint]

And nothing prevents the team for "coming to terms" on free agent contracts and signing them in June when the cap money clears. We do that for rookies every single year as well.

Rookies don't really have a choice, because the Saints have exclusive rights. It's a really big ask for a free agent. There is no binding agreement when teams "come to terms" so a free agent waiting until June 1st to get a binding contract is a big risk for them. If the Saints back out in May, then they've missed prime free agency and are left holding the bag.

Conversely, if the player backs out before June 1st, the Saints roster is left short handed. I don't think it's realistic to think that the Saints or free agents are going to take that kind of a risk. The Saints actively re-sign some of their own players every free agency. They don't just sign other players. They are going to have several roster spots they have to fill this year to have a full roster and they have always filled out their roster before the draft.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

It seems like everyone is trying to avoid a restructure of Carr and I’m willing to bet thats exactly what we do because thar restructure doesn’t stop us from walking away when we’re ready

 

[Treybad]

Not a fan of contracts that or low at the start and higher at the end... this is how we get above the cap??

 

[livefromDC]

I don't need a lesson on how it works. I know how it works. I hate how it works. Because we DID sign those contracts for those old guys and we ARE stuck with those players while they are in decline. You can't separate the way the team spends money and who they spend it on. They are interlinked.

You seem to think that the whole thing is about money when it's really about roster flexibility and sustained success. We all watched Demario, Tyrann and Cam lose a step last year. All of them. And because of the cap management system in place they will more than likely ALL be on the team this year too while being another year older and likely to lose another step.

Most other teams leave 10% or so of the cap to allow for adjustments like this. I'm not even asking for 10%. I'd settle for 2% or heck even -5%. Only 3 teams are beyond -5% of the cap, the Bills (~-6%, the Browns (~-11%) and the Saints at -20%. You may think that's it's fine and normal, but no other team is doing it like this and the closest to it is the Browns. The Browns.

You don't like that the Saints are at -20% on some random day before the start of the new league year? Alright fine. Are you going to feel better when they are at 2% the day after the start of the new league year? Or what if Kellen Moore has big plans that he's shared with Loomis so the Saints are at 10% when free agency starts?

Loomis has done all of these things before. So I guess the question comes back to is this about the cap or a want to move on from Carr? And don't get me wrong, if it's the latter, it's an understandable opinion to hold. It's just that "cleaning up" the salary cap is ongoing and doesn't specifically have to be tied to moving on from Carr now unless it's part of Moore's on the field strategy. It's not needed as a cap strategy.

 

[Rouxble]

I don't think there is any real way to lower his cap hit. If he is cut $40m of his dead money cap hit is from money already sitting in his bank account. He is only owed $10m in new money from a roster bonus that was guaranteed in March of 2024. I guess there is the possibility he would forfeit that, but I don't know why he would.

You would still use the post June 1 designation, but get him to agree to a pay cut in exchange for an offset-free bonus (with a poison pill to ensure his release) so that we don’t have to carry as big of a cap hit until June.

Example:

-Give him an $8m bonus
-Cut his salary to the mininum
-Add a poison pill that guarantees him $100m+ if not cut soon after the league year starts (like we did for Winston)

Cap hit for start of the league year reduces by $32m. Further cap relief of $1m or so after June 1.

Had to edit the last part, put too much for June 1 cap savings.

 

[livefromDC]

Not a fan of contracts that or low at the start and higher at the end... this is how we get above the cap??

If a new team was starting today with the full amount of cap space and they front loaded their contracts without the guarantee of a franchise QB on a rookie deal (which would be the Saints), and they had all the money to spend in free agency and the full compliment of draft picks, that team would likely suck as it could only afford to pay 3 or 4 players.

To put if in perspective, Barkley will count $21 million against the Eagles cap in 2027. Jalen Hurts will account for $31 million and another $42 million the following year. Taking these hits this year to save money on the future, higher cap means you can't retain as many good players now. If you can't retain as much talent now, the team is unlikely to compete.

The end goal is NOT saving salary cap space.

 

[Rouxble]

If a new team was starting today with the full amount of cap space and they front loaded their contracts without the guarantee of a franchise QB on a rookie deal (which would be the Saints), and they had all the money to spend in free agency and the full compliment of draft picks, that team would likely suck as it could only afford to pay 3 or 4 players.

To put if in perspective, Barkley will count $21 million against the Eagles cap in 2027. Jalen Hurts will account for $42 million and another $48 million the following year. Taking these hits this year to save money on the future, higher cap means you can't retain as many good players now. If you can't retain as much talent now, the team is unlikely to compete.

The end goal is NOT saving salary cap space.

The flaw in that thought process is the assumption that we are able to spend more due to our strategy. Despite being up to our neck in cap charges in 2024, the Saints were 22nd in cash spending. They are projected the same right now, despite having tremendously less space available than every other team. It’s unlikely we will climb up the chart much and we’ll likely fall further down the list, which is the result of maxing out every year.

 

[livefromDC]

The flaw in that thought process is the assumption that we are able to spend more due to our strategy. Despite being up to our neck in cap charges in 2024, the Saints were 22nd in cash spending. They are projected the same right now, despite having tremendously less space available than every other team. It’s unlikely we will climb up the chart much and we’ll likely fall further down the list, which is the result of maxing out every year.

Nope. You're thinking of the cap as being a series of static unrelated years. Cash spending is irrelevant.