Elvis' 2025 cap and roster cleanup proposal (10 Viewers)

[DSnfla]

I think I can give you a better blueprint/example than Denver. Entering the 2021 off-season the Eagles were coming off a 4-11-1 season (7-9 the prior two seasons). They had a frequently injured Carson Wentz on a big contract and had just watched their rookie Jalen Hurts struggle in 4 starts but he showed some potential. They started $53million over the projected salary cap. They had good pieces on the OL/DL but were without much talent at the skill positions (like drafting Jalen Reagor over Justin Jefferson) and in the back end of the defense.

They fired their head coach and hired Nick Sirianni. The media had the same speculation on what they would do at QB as the Saints are having now. Most assumed they would run it back with Wentz. They ended up trading him to the Colts and taking on a bunch more dead cap split over a couple of years. They cut and restructured like crazy to get cap compliant followed by signing a bunch of cheap 1yr contracts in free agency.

They went 9-8 in 2021 getting a wildcard spot in a tie-break over the Saints. The only team they beat that year with a winning record. In 2022 they made it to the Super Bowl.

2021 Philadelphia Eagles season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Philadelphia Eagles' salary cap situation heading into 2021

What is the state of the Philadelphia Eagles' salary cap situation in 2021, and what moves could they make to open up more cap space?

www.profootballnetwork.com

Well there are some pretty big differences. They were able to rollover almost 23 mil from the 2020 season. So they were over the cap by about 40 mil even with the 33 in dead cap from Wentz. They also in order to eat Wentz's cap hit did not have to restructure players like Mathieu , Davis and probably Cam players that are past their prime. And a host of other players that we would not be able to move on from so easily due to the restructure. Let alone sing our own FAs. And ask for pay cuts.

They also could have gotten 10 mil under the cap even with the Wentz trade buy just restructuring 5 players. Something even if we make DC a 6/1 cut could not

Yes they got markedly better in 21 , but look at their draft. , Smith, Williams, Dickerson, plus others. They had a very good draft

 

[texasjefe]

Eagles cap in 2021? Not relevant! They won the SB in 2017 and they just won it again. Their GM paid the bill in 2021. They then drafted a top rookie quarterback. You want to compare Howie Roseman to Mickey Loomis? Mickey didn't pay the bill 11 years after our Super Bowl, or after Drew and Sean finished. He still hasn't paid the bill. Mickey rolled with retreads Winston, Dalton, and Carr. As long as Mr. Irrelevant took his team to the Super Bowl last year, they have no excuses for not drafting a QB from the moment the phrase 'air yards' showed up. Anyone who wants to compare Howie's body of work to Lazyboy Loomis since 2010 when Howie started, let's go. Start with Baun and CJ, Super Bowl champions. Disgusting. And the Eagles won the 2017 Super Bowl with a backup! (who went to Drew Brees' high school).

In 2018 - while we were screwed- we put out on the field that fatefuLday the crap like Tommy Lee Lewis and that easy GW TD dropper UFDA Dan Arnold. In 2020, we lost because of a journeyman tight end. Ben Watson was last decent tight end the Saints had, and he was old!! If Mickey deferred roster decisions to head coach, then what choice did Sean have? They both put low budget crap on the field and that killed everything Drew and the other legit NFL players did. KILLED IT!

The cap is a 5 year accounting exercise? NO! Not when you dead cap at 15% or greater EVERY SEASON while your roster can't handle a 17 game season, or even 3 games, when 2023 and 2024 seasons indirectly ended.

Not when - and people do not understand this incompetence - there is no more cap savings by dead capping players. Where do you want Mickey's contract with Derek Carr to screw us? On the cap, or on the dead cap? NFL contracts are typically set up so a cap hit is way more than a dead cap for cutting him. Mickey got so desperate and addicted he crossed this line. NFL contracts are typically set up so that the cap savings of cutting a player is far more than their dead cap. Not with Magic Cap Mickey.

IT IS NOT NORMAL OR ACCEPTABLE TO SAY: THE CAP WILL BE CLEAN BY 2027! That's two or three more seasons of this crap for season ticket holders, who have been treated to bad to mediocre football the past 4 years! Some of ya'll like to say to unhappy season ticket holders to bolt if they are not happy, That's ridiculous. Giving up an incredibly valuable personal asset such as season tickets should not have to be an option for those folks. Do your job for your customers Loomis, not for your ego.

So, we have Studio Saint and others saying the Saints are going for it in 2025.
Lovely, nothing learned.
Oh, but the Saints have a good roster? Sure, that's why everyone is saying the Saints have massive roster holes at every position. Where's the 5 year cap plan from 2021 for every position group? SHAKING MY H-H-H-H-HEAD!! The money lost in dead caps is why we have crap in the middle and bottom of the roster. Add up the dead caps and then calculate what additional legit NFL players and salary we could've used while we were underscoring, losing, and finishing low in the WURRSTTEST DIVORSION IN FOOTTTBALL.

Studio Saint, cover your eyes for this next line:

The best thing Mickey Loomis can do for Kellen Moore is clean up the cap as fast as possible. Why? Because maybe following the Saints cap ya'll haven't seen how expensive top 2nd contract players are now. GM 101 is cutting your vets before it's too late, so you free up that salary for the current era, not the last era we're still dinosaured in.

I'm very happy we hired Kellen Moore, a young offensive coach. Can he evaluate and develop talent? We'll find out. If he can, we're going to turnover the roster and have new young guys to cheer for. Watching a "Baby Saints" team get newly built, watching any college or pro team get built from baby to legit contender to me is the 2nd best big picture joy in football. Mickey will do what he does, but no way am I going to give him a pass for letting the Saints cap and roster become type 1 diabetic with an A1C of 11.

Lastly, I'm tired of people saying they don't want a perfect cap and dead cap, and $90M of cap space. Why? Because nobody is saying that! We need a competitive roster, a new quarterback (or Rattler if he can improve), and a dead cap at no more than 5%. Probably balanced to normally enter a season with enough cap space (without being that guy who balloons all the future dead caps) and having what, $30-$40M of space to sign your own desired free agents and a couple no-discount starter free agents.

 

[StudioSaint]

Eagles cap in 2021? Not relevant! They won the SB in 2017 and they just won it again. Their GM paid the bill in 2021. They then drafted a top rookie quarterback. You want to compare Howie Roseman to Mickey Loomis? Mickey didn't pay the bill 11 years after our Super Bowl, or after Drew and Sean finished. He still hasn't paid the bill. Mickey rolled with retreads Winston, Dalton, and Carr. As long as Mr. Irrelevant took his team to the Super Bowl last year, they have no excuses for not drafting a QB from the moment the phrase 'air yards' showed up. Anyone who wants to compare Howie's body of work to Lazyboy Loomis since 2010 when Howie started, let's go. Start with Baun and CJ, Super Bowl champions. Disgusting. And the Eagles won the 2017 Super Bowl with a backup! (who went to Drew Brees' high school).

In 2018 - while we were screwed- we put out on the field that fatefuLday the crap like Tommy Lee Lewis and that easy GW TD dropper UFDA Dan Arnold. In 2020, we lost because of a journeyman tight end. Ben Watson was last decent tight end the Saints had, and he was old!! If Mickey deferred roster decisions to head coach, then what choice did Sean have? They both put low budget crap on the field and that killed everything Drew and the other legit NFL players did. KILLED IT!

The cap is a 5 year accounting exercise? NO! Not when you dead cap at 15% or greater EVERY SEASON while your roster can't handle a 17 game season, or even 3 games, when 2023 and 2024 seasons indirectly ended.

Not when - and people do not understand this incompetence - there is no more cap savings by dead capping players. Where do you want Mickey's contract with Derek Carr to screw us? On the cap, or on the dead cap? NFL contracts are typically set up so a cap hit is way more than a dead cap for cutting him. Mickey got so desperate and addicted he crossed this line. NFL contracts are typically set up so that the cap savings of cutting a player is far more than their dead cap. Not with Magic Cap Mickey.

IT IS NOT NORMAL OR ACCEPTABLE TO SAY: THE CAP WILL BE CLEAN BY 2027! That's two or three more seasons of this crap for season ticket holders, who have been treated to bad to mediocre football the past 4 years! Some of ya'll like to say to unhappy season ticket holders to bolt if they are not happy, That's ridiculous. Giving up an incredibly valuable personal asset such as season tickets should not have to be an option for those folks. Do your job for your customers Loomis, not for your ego.

So, we have Studio Saint and others saying the Saints are going for it in 2025.
Lovely, nothing learned.
Oh, but the Saints have a good roster? Sure, that's why everyone is saying the Saints have massive roster holes at every position. Where's the 5 year cap plan from 2021 for every position group? SHAKING MY H-H-H-H-HEAD!! The money lost in dead caps is why we have crap in the middle and bottom of the roster. Add up the dead caps and then calculate what additional legit NFL players and salary we could've used while we were underscoring, losing, and finishing low in the WURRSTTEST DIVORSION IN FOOTTTBALL.

Studio Saint, cover your eyes for this next line:

The best thing Mickey Loomis can do for Kellen Moore is clean up the cap as fast as possible. Why? Because maybe following the Saints cap ya'll haven't seen how expensive top 2nd contract players are now. GM 101 is cutting your vets before it's too late, so you free up that salary for the current era, not the last era we're still dinosaured in.

I'm very happy we hired Kellen Moore, a young offensive coach. Can he evaluate and develop talent? We'll find out. If he can, we're going to turnover the roster and have new young guys to cheer for. Watching a "Baby Saints" team get newly built, watching any college or pro team get built from baby to legit contender to me is the 2nd best big picture joy in football. Mickey will do what he does, but no way am I going to give him a pass for letting the Saints cap and roster become type 1 diabetic with an A1C of 11.

Lastly, I'm tired of people saying they don't want a perfect cap and dead cap, and $90M of cap space. Why? Because nobody is saying that! We need a competitive roster, a new quarterback (or Rattler if he can improve), and a dead cap at no more than 5%. Probably balanced to normally enter a season with enough cap space (without being that guy who balloons all the future dead caps) and having what, $30-$40M of space to sign your own desired free agents and a couple no-discount starter free agents.

I say this with nothing but love. You seem to be getting way too worked up over something you can't control. That's bad for the mind, body and soul.

 

[livefromDC]

I say this with nothing but love. You seem to be getting way too worked up over something you can't control. That's bad for the mind, body and soul.

Yeah, that post is about perfect example of why I usually stay out of salary cap discussions.

 

[St. Geezy]

I say this with nothing but love. You seem to be getting way too worked up over something you can't control. That's bad for the mind, body and soul.

Yeah, that post is about perfect example of why I usually stay out of salary cap discussions.

This is where I am at now with this and opt to bow out of these discussions once they reach a certain level that goes beyond just talking generalities and mud-slinging starts to get into the conversation. Too much arguing and bitterness over something none of us control and something none of us are privy to in regards to the team’s future planning or actual desires.

Way too much anger being thrown around, as if these discussions will have any bearing whatsoever on what the team wants to get done, and to a degree, already has planned to do.

So some of us disagree on what the problems are that led us to having a subpar team and the direction the team needs to take to fix it, no big deal. Let’s just see what happens.

 

[Elvis]

FINANCIAL SUMMARY​

• Original Top-51 Cap Total$329,062,986
• Current Top-51 Cap Total$265,974,986
• Top-51 Cap Space$11,954,187
• Cap Gain/Loss$63,088,000

LOG​

• Conversion for Erik McCoy
  Saved $7,144,000
• Conversion for Cesar Ruiz
  Saved $6,384,000
• Traded Derek Carr away
  Saves $40,000,000
• Traded Taysom Hill away
  Saves $10,250,000
• Processed void for Juwan Johnson
  Saved $2,805,000
• Released Jamaal Williams
  Saved $1,590,000
• Released Cedrick Wilson
  Saved $2,400,000

Hill got me a 5th in 2026
Carr got me a 6th this year

Where is the dead money from prorated bonuses?

 

[Elvis]

I say this with nothing but love. You seem to be getting way too worked up over something you can't control. That's bad for the mind, body and soul.

It's really irritating how you and several others gas light people with your comments, they reply with examples of why they disagree and then you reply with this garbage. Your comment added nothing to the conversation except fuel for more vitriol. Is that your actual motive at this point? You aren't contributing anything of substance to show how the team might be managed.

 

[StudioSaint]

It's really irritating how you and several others gas light people with your comments,

First, I want to point out that within the last 48 hours you publicly announced to me that you were putting me on your ignore list and would not respond to me anymore. Yet here you are responding to me.

Second, I have never gaslit anyone on anything here or anywhere else in my life. You are way too quick to rashly judge people as being dishonest and throwing out completely false and unjustified accusations like you just did here.

There is nothing civil about falsely accusing people of "lying, being dishonest, being disingenuous and gaslighting." The rules here very clearly state to keep the discussion civil and you repeatedly throw out false and uncivil accusations like this.

...they reply with examples of why they disagree and then you reply with this garbage.

Texasjefe didn't just disagree with people. He was obviously upset and angry with how the Saints manage the salary cap and at people here who disagree with him. That's why I sincerely said what I said. Trying to give someone some perspective that might help them be less stressed and angry is not garbage in my book.

Your comment added nothing to the conversation except fuel for more vitriol.

The vitriol is already there. I was trying to diffuse it with my comment. That's the value I was trying to add. I have no control over how people choose to react to what I say. None of us do.

Is that your actual motive at this point?

If you would focus more on what people say and less on guessing about their honest and motivations, it would be easier to have civil discussions.

You aren't contributing anything of substance to show how the team might be managed.

How exactly did this post of yours contribute anything of substance to show how the team might be managed?

I've contributed a lot of substance about salary cap management in this thread. You haven't just disagreed with me, you've been unnecessarily hostile in your disagreements. Like you just did in this post. I don't take it personally, because you are pretty much hostile to everyone you disagree with on this subject.

 

[Elvis]

First, I want to point out that within the last 48 hours you publicly announced to me that you were putting me on your ignore list and would not respond to me anymore. Yet here you are responding to me.

Second, I have never gaslit anyone on anything here or anywhere else in my life. You are way too quick to rashly judge people as being dishonest and throwing out completely false and unjustified accusations like you just did here.

There is nothing civil about falsely accusing people of "lying, being dishonest, being disingenuous and gaslighting." The rules here very clearly state to keep the discussion civil and you repeatedly throw out false and uncivil accusations like this.


Texasjefe didn't just disagree with people. He was obviously upset and angry with how the Saints manage the salary cap and at people here who disagree with him. That's why I sincerely said what I said. Trying to give someone some perspective that might help them be less stressed and angry is not garbage in my book.


The vitriol is already there. I was trying to diffuse it with my comment. That's the value I was trying to add. I have no control over how people choose to react to what I say. None of us do.


If you would focus more on what people say and less on guessing about their honest and motivations, it would be easier to have civil discussions.


How exactly did this post of yours contribute anything of substance to show how the team might be managed?

I've contributed a lot of substance about salary cap management in this thread. You haven't just disagreed with me, you've been unnecessarily hostile in your disagreements. Like you just did in this post. I don't take it personally, because you are pretty much hostile to everyone you disagree with on this subject.

I wrote a lot of things in response to this huge pile of BS and decided to delete it. I'm not going to sink to your level of discourse. I'm not going to muddy up this board. I'm going to take the higher ground. Good day.

 

[StudioSaint]

I wrote a lot of things in response to this huge pile of BS and decided to delete it. I'm not going to sink to your level of discourse. I'm not going to muddy up this board. I'm going to take the higher ground. Good day.

Not once have I questioned your honesty, sincerity or motivations. Not once have I ever called anything you posted garbage or BS. Not once have I said a post of yours added nothing to the conversation but vitriol. Not once have I said your post muddy the board.

You've said all those things to me and you're the one taking the higher road? You actually said higher ground, but I think you meant higher road. It seems like higher ground was a Freudian slip, because higher ground is used mostly in regards to military combat and you are more combative than conversational with people who disagree with you. Unfortunately, you are not the only one.