Breaking! Gayle Benson fires Dennis Allen; Loomis discusses Allen’s firing on WWL (pg 46) (103 Viewers)

[St. Widge]

Its weird that I said loss to ATL because we won that game, but I guess in hindsigh it registred as a loss because of how things went down.

I noticed that and I was thinking the same thing. We won that game by a lot, but it felt like a loss after what went down at the end and with DA apologizing.

 

[St. Widge]

That guy had 200 yards from scrimmage last week and is on track for his best year ever despite the absolute suck we've displayed as a team.

Yeah, AK really looked like he did as a young player in that game. And that was despite a career high in touches.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Yeah, AK really looked like he did as a young player in that game. And that was despite a career high in touches.

I've always believed Alvin was still on par. He probably doesn't have quite the leg drive he did on younger legs, but he's still got his unworldly balance and he was never a speed merchant. He's also incredibly smart for a RB in how he see's defenses which makes him dangerous in the passing game on option routes. In fact, food for thought.

Last year, Juwan Johnson was supposed to take the next step, and that revolved around him being utilized w/ more option routes. Remember, Carr was supposed to be friendly to TE's. Last year, Juwan didn't take that step.

So here's a curious question. Why was Juwan Johnson the target on an option route on that final play and not Kamara? We could look at our OC and say perhaps bad playcall and yet I've got to think the HC maybe say something like "give me somethign to Kamara here" and Kubiak under the guidance of his HC makes the call right?

IDK, lots of questions, not a lot of answers. Allen wasn't good enough and that's all it boils down to.

 

[sfidc3]

That guy had 200 yards from scrimmage last week and is on track for his best year ever despite the absolute suck we've displayed as a team.

Yup, it's actually one of the few things they've done recently I agree with....AK41 is not your typical aging RB.....

 

[DaveXA]

Former Saint, James Hurst believes Allen lost the team after he took them to task for the Williams TD from victory formation at the end of the Atlanta game last season.

Apparently that’s when players started chattering amongst themselves.

I totally can see this. A lot of fans took issue with his pathetic apology, so it's not surprising players felt the same way.

 

[St. Widge]

I've always believed Alvin was still on par. He probably doesn't have quite the leg drive he did on younger legs, but he's still got his unworldly balance and he was never a speed merchant. He's also incredibly smart for a RB in how he see's defenses which makes him dangerous in the passing game on option routes. In fact, food for thought.

Last year, Juwan Johnson was supposed to take the next step, and that revolved around him being utilized w/ more option routes. Remember, Carr was supposed to be friendly to TE's. Last year, Juwan didn't take that step.

So here's a curious question. Why was Juwan Johnson the target on an option route on that final play and not Kamara? We could look at our OC and say perhaps bad playcall and yet I've got to think the HC maybe say something like "give me somethign to Kamara here" and Kubiak under the guidance of his HC makes the call right?

IDK, lots of questions, not a lot of answers. Allen wasn't good enough and that's all it boils down to.

I do wonder how much of the overly conservative play calling at times was due to DA telling Kubiak what he wanted. I know that Kubiak was conservative with the Vikings, which was blame on Zimmer, but we have seen the same thing here. I wonder how much of that is his philosophy and how much of it is DA or just a lack of personnel?

I do like what Kubiak has done with the run game when the OL is at least partially healthy, but I haven't been impressed with the lack of motion, lack of play action, and lack of inventiveness in the passing game. And I don't think he did a good job of calling plays or scheming for Rattler after his first start. I thought the plan was particularly bad against the Chargers.

Although I do think he did a good job against Carolina other that the 4th down fade. I know Carr's first read was Johnson on the option route, but I don't get a 30 yard fade even being in the read progression in that situation. Anway, yes it seems like whatever play the ran, AK should have been the guy they were trying to get the ball to in that situation.

 

[St. Widge]

Yup, it's actually one of the few things they've done recently I agree with....AK41 is not your typical aging RB.....

It does look like he may be another Adrian Peterson who can play at a high level at a much older age. I do think it's a risk, but he's the only real playmaker this team has right now outside of the deep ball to Shaheed.

 

[kcirdor]

DA was the conservstive philosophy, that is certain. So many games lost in the final minutes because we suddenly switch to zone or start playing soft and the offense just protecting the ball.. it was Mora 2.0 minus Mora's passion.

 

[BreesusSaves]

So here's a curious question. Why was Juwan Johnson the target on an option route on that final play and not Kamara? We could look at our OC and say perhaps bad playcall and yet I've got to think the HC maybe say something like "give me somethign to Kamara here" and Kubiak under the guidance of his HC makes the call right?

IDK, lots of questions, not a lot of answers. Allen wasn't good enough and that's all it boils down to.

Kamara was doubled, Johnson had inside leverage and was open past the sticks, and the pocket was clean. I am pretty certain Wilson's route was primarily to clear out to keep the safeties back. Watching the play, the design looks pretty damn good for Johnson as the primary read. He was open and the amount of green in front of him was substantial.

Carr simply decided to throw a jump ball to a guy with no separation.

 

[Rexman100]

I agree with the vast majority of this post. But I don't think we got fleeced on the Lattimore trade. Two undeniable things about Lattimore was evident before getting shipped to Washington. First, no one can deny the greatness that he brought to the position. But alas, his best years seem to be behind him. We got the picks that we did simply because there was still enough value in the young man for one of the 'all in' teams to take a shot at upgrading that corner position. Marshon still does that. However...

The bigger issue is whether he can ever overcome the rash of injuries we've seen from him in recent years, particularly the recurring tweaks of his hamstring. Some seem to feel that his injuries were of the 'business decision' variety. But if that was really the issue that kept him from being 'available' to play (particularly after signing a huge contract), then this is not a good look for a professional player, and it would give even more reason for wanting to cut ties with such a player.

But I truly don't believe that Lattimore was feigning an injury. Instead I believe that Washington realized his past (and current) propensity for ripping up his hammy and considered his history when making their play for him. He is literally heading to the Commanders straight off of our injury list. I really do wish him well and will miss his outstanding performances when he's on the field. But he is simply the most logical start to the list of upheavals that are coming within the next year or two. It HAS to happen in order to start writing a new chapter for the Saints. Money rules the league.

I believe its both. I too don't agree that he's selfish all the time and only makes business decisions because how could he sit out of Carolina. He wouldn't. So imo, he must've been legit injured. Missing training camp is more diva like. Aaron Rogers missed Mandatory mini camp for example. So theres an element of that too. When he pulls himself out like he did vs Denver, then that was a business decision. And a good business decision. Something a good coach should do, when your team is getting destroyed, pull your starters at some point. My whole issue with the tear it down and reset, is that its a 3 year plan not an offseseon like some are trying to fool themselves into beleiving. ML is the best qualifired to navigate us out of this situaion, a situation that we for the most part all agredd too, "kicking the can" as opposed to a new GM w/no knowedge of ML intent and plan. Thats why its important not to jump to conclusions about if theres tension between GB and ML. Let the facts play out on that issue first, imo.

 

[St. Widge]

DA was the conservstive philosophy, that is certain. So many games lost in the final minutes because we suddenly switch to zone or start playing soft and the offense just protecting the ball.. it was Mora 2.0 minus Mora's passion.

It is funny though because people went ballistic about losing the Philly game because he played man on Philly's last drive which led to the Keystone Cops moment.

 

[Nolan]

Kamara was doubled, Johnson had inside leverage and was open past the sticks, and the pocket was clean. I am pretty certain Wilson's route was primarily to clear out to keep the safeties back. Watching the play, the design looks pretty damn good for Johnson as the primary read. He was open and the amount of green in front of him was substantial.

Carr simply decided to throw a jump ball to a guy with no separation.

Yep. I pointed this out in another thread with a similar still shot. The play-call was fine, we got what we wanted. Just needed our QB to step up and throw a decent football over the middle of the field. Johnson is literally anticipating the throw.

 

[Rexman100]

Sorry man but if you look at all the reports on this, DA might have been fired even if they beat Carolina. Gayle Benson has been communicating with players for two weeks on this issue. It's not an issue that suddenly popped up after losing to Carolina. It seems clear he lost the locker room at the end of last year. I think he then more or less won them back over the offseason and with a better training camp. But after the long losing streak, it became clear to the players that the issues they had with him before were still there.

I think DA is a good defensive coach. But ironically despite all the people calling him a Beta Male, I think by nature he is an old school football coach. Problem is that he tried to emulate what Payton did and that isn't his personality. The players saw through it and could tell he wasn't being who he was. I do think all the personal attacks on him and Loomis are over the top. But, DA clearly was not getting the job done and lost the team. And Loomis showed poor judgment and/or an inability to overcome personal attachments in failing to see the obvious for 1 1/2 years.

That's poor judgment and makes me question whether he can still do the GM job. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt given that he had begun to clean up the cap, stopped always trading up, and actually had a deal in place to trade down in the draft. But the fact that Gayle Benson had to go over his head to fire DA makes me seriously question if he can change enough to still do the job. Sometimes guys just get burned out and you need to bring in new blood.

"failing to see the obvious" Nothing became obvious until after the Philly game. You dont gain a lockeroom, then lose it, gain it again. Its not a juggling ball. You either have it or you dont. "But the fact that Gayle Benson had to go over his head to fire DA" Ill assume for this comment that its true. (it was likely optics) But ill assume its true for this response: Thats not a good thing, that a non football person made a highly emotional decision to appease an emotional mob. ML, knows thats you dont gain a thing by firing a coach midseason. So like a man with respect, he was going to let DA ride it out. Now, that comment was if i beleived GB did that on purpose. I dont. This is what i think happened: ML/GB/<Insert name>, gathered and said, we're losing games fast and furious what are we going to do, we have to trurn it around. Its clear DA is not able to get it done, unfortuantely he has to go. Now lets not be fools and lose another Dan Campbell. So lets play our last card to turn this thing around: Let Rizzi have a shot at it w/ half of a season left. If he turns it around he'll win us and the mob. If he doesnt, then we look for a new coach. The actual evidence supports my theory.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I think it's clear that Allen was fired for the same reason most coaches are fired, he couldn't overcome adversity which in this case was injuries. But, you are right that he proved long ago that he should not have the job. I think it all started when Winston lost his job due to injury and it snowballed from there. Frankly, I think the fact that he has known and been friends with Loomis so long is the only reason he made it to this season.

It also seems clear that Loomis had no intention of firing DA during the season and was going to give him the full season to see if he could turn it around. I do think he would have fired him at the end of the season, but luckily Gayle Benson stepped in and ended our misery early.

But, it does really make me question Loomis' decision making. I'm not sure how you watch Payton for all those years and can't tell when a head coach just isn't getting the job done. Maybe it's because he was too close to DA to objectively evaluate him? Whatever the reason, he either needs to get over his personal attachments or he needs to be moved out of the GM job.

Decision making can always be questionable when it's a friend or someone you feel a connection w/. It can certainly cloud judgement and I think Loomis was fond of Allen, probably even more so than Payton. Some people you just jive w/ right? Truly believe that was the case for this, it's also why he defends him, along w/ some ego, im sure, but he likely truly believed Allen was the right person.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

People told me that the winning streak at the end proved I was wrong

This irked me to no end, including from folks here. That "streak" proved nothing when those teams we beat had similar or worse records than the Saints. We had not turned any corners.