Head Coach if there is no GM change (9 Viewers)

[RJ in Lafayette]

To be clear, I am not advocating that Gruden be hired. I used the word "interesting." There is major baggage. But I have always liked Gruden. If he is interested in returning to coaching, I would at least kick the tires. Certainly, how the league and players might respond is a major factor. I do not know how players would respond.

 

[solarbear88]

Flow chart for hiring a coach.

Do you chew gum?
Yes - get out of here
No - you're hired

 

[Pkessling]

To be clear, I am not advocating that Gruden be hired. I used the word "interesting." There is major baggage. But I have always liked Gruden. If he is interested in returning to coaching, I would at least kick the tires. Certainly, how the league and players might respond is a major factor. I do not know how players would respond.

Dinosaur offense. The league has passed him by.

 

[DSnfla]

IMO if there is no move in the front office we will hire a Head Coach that had no possible other options to be a NFL Head Coach.

Think someone like Joe Brady.

People like that. I think if Aaron Glenn had options like the Jets or Saints for example he would pick the Jets. If there are no options left then he would come here.

Head Coach and General Manager is a marriage of sorts or like having a business partner. It’s hard to create alignment with your business partner if they are near the end of their career and you’re in your prime.

Our General Manager is knocking on the door of 70 years old. Real Head Coaches w real options know this is a problem and they also want real control.

This setup is how we got DA. He was never going to get another chance. DA was also willing to cede control.

We need an alpha dog Head Coach and we won’t get it under these conditions.

It's my opinion that your opinion may be exaggerated. I doubt that a change in GMs would make a top HC candidate change his mind and take a job he thinks he's doomed to fail at.

Yes ML is almost 70 but I'm guessing that Mrs.B , Lausha and he already have an idea of who the next GM is and he would be in the loop as far as the next HC and the next HC with him.

There are what I consider 5-8 good HC candidates available . I don't think there will be 8 vacancies this yr , so the math tells me we will get a good candidate one that could get a HC job if he wanted one

 

[DSnfla]

I don't doubt that we'll be able to land a promising coach. There will be someone who wants to prove themselves regardless of our circumstance.

I think you're missing the major point, though, it's that Loomis' stubborn and controlling approach will not be attractive to coaches who want roster control. The idea that a proven insider, who has inside access to this organization, is basing his opinion of Loomis on a "SR Witch Hunt" is kinda crazy to me. But whatever you think. There was no "SR Witch Hunt" of Loomis when he started dropping information with concerns of Loomis last year, was there? Yet you think he's just randomly hopping on some forum bandwagon?

Maybe I'm in the dark , but can you give me examples of ML's stubborn and controlling behavior?

 

[DSnfla]

Here is the thing. Do you think Loomis should have trusted Dennis Allen to make personnel decision and give him full control over the team? I don't even think he should have been coaching the team much less have full control over personnel decisions and the football side. Had Loomis done that, I think that alone should get him fired.

I would prefer if Loomis moved on and we got a new young GM and maybe Loomis did take control away from DA, but nobody, no matter how connected, can tell you if it was due to him having a giant out of control ego or if he just didn't trust DA to do those things.

So, while I would prefer Loomis to move on, he has given full control to a HC if they show that they deserve to have that control the way Payton did. Hopefully we get a HC that deserves to have control.

I also think it's dangerous to think that because someone has inside information, most of which turned out to be true, that their opinion is necessarily more correct than any other. Clearly Max has inside information but he also has opinions. We should be careful to separate the two.

Also there are many levels of " Insider Info" There's "I'm kind of friends with a player" to " the inner circle " I doubt there are any posters on here that fall into the latter

 

[DSnfla]

I’ve read all of the comments and let me clarify.

I’m not saying Joe Brady will be the Coach , I’m not saying that we can’t hire a good coach but what I am saying is that the FO/GM situation in New Orleans is a problem and that is known in the league.

Do you think it’s not known in the league that a few of the players got to Gayle and she forced the GM to fire the Head Coach ? Everyone knows that.

“Loomis hired Payton “ !
Ok let’s unpack that …

Tom Benson hired Payton. We can argue who is credited and who was the GM but - I KNOW that Benson hired Payton and assured him he would have certain controls over the roster , free agency and the draft. He had very strong personnel decision making ability which was important to him as a Parcells disciple and that was assured by the Owner. Loomis on the other hand was a bottom 5 paid GM in the NFL.

“He has always worked well with Head Coaches” … when did you hear Loomis do much talking when Benson was alive and well ? Very rarely. There was the famous meme of him with the Matrix numbers in the background. He was supposed to be the numbers genius behind the scenes.

When did that change ?

It probably changed gradually as we began winning but Loomis got very little public credit for our success ( right or wrong that’s true ) But in any event it changed. Payton’s decision to leave was he could read the writing on the wall. Some of the power he had was starting to get reeled back and ( IN MY OPINION ) he started to feel like he might become the odd man out. There was a sentiment that Loomis had really built a winning organization built to last and it was more the continuity and culture that was winning and not Payton’s direct influence.

Loomis hired DA , which was already pre discussed and agreed to , and started campaigning for the Hall of Fame , created a GM radio show , lit the Christmas lights at the Roosevelt , created a 200th Win party for himself to be recognized.


All that said - what I meant by my original post is that no guy with real decent options is going to want anything to do with this. It will likely be someone they’ve already talked to , someone that will make the control and power concessions that they want. Which will likely also be someone that doesn’t have a lot of great pathways to be an NFL Head Coach.

With respect, is that not the way all HCs are hired? The GM compiles a list of candidates , interviews them, maybe has some other football FO person sit in on the 2nd interview. Then he picks out the ones he thinks are the best candidates or candidate and then the owner meets with them and the owner hires the one he feels along with the GM is the best guy. Maybe I'm missing something

 

[DSnfla]

I think it's a good point about the GM position. The truth is that if Loomis moves on/is fired/ is promoted out of the GM role, etc. the most likely replacement is someone that is already with the team. That likely means either Khai Harley, Dave Ziegler, Randy Mueller, or Jeff Ireland would get the job. Maybe they would do a better job, but none of them would be the type of complete overhaul that many are calling for.

I do think Mueller would be an interesting option if only because he felt like he was starting to build something here before the Haslett fiasco cost him his job. He wasn't great in Miami, but he always felt like a guy who could identify talent and knew how to best use the draft. He also seemed to value adding draft picks though I will admit that I haven't looked closely as how many trade downs/trade ups he has done.

But, whoever it would be is going to be someone with a lot of NFL experience because I think Mrs. Benson and Dennis Lauscha place high value of being able to hire a GM with experience that they can just let do his job without having to be too involved. They aren't going to hire the next hot shot young GM. They are going to hire someone with years of experience doing the job.

Underhill said it's highly unlikely Mueller is GM

 

[DSnfla]

Not necessarily, you have no idea what Brady will look like as a HC, as he has never been in that role, do you know him personally?

And TBH, there have been successful coaches that haven't been "alpha dog" types.....Andy Reid comes to mind....

I never liked Vrabel, think he is a meathead conservative defensive minded coach, I want a young offensive minded coach willing to take chances.....

The comment that Teddy Bridgewater made about Brady not even running RZ situations in Car. makes Brady a no for me

 

[sfidc3]

The comment that Teddy Bridgewater made about Brady not even running RZ situations in Car. makes Brady a no for me

I don't hold Brady responsible for much of anything that happened with that disaster of a franchise.....and one comment from a retired player on something that allegedly happened years ago that may/may not be true really wouldn't sway me much one way or another....

If that's you reason IMO you need to find a better one....

 

[SaintFanInATLHell2019]

I'm unfamiliar with that. What site is it on?

If Loomis is really looking at Gruden as a top candidate for the HC job, he should be fired now. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but not if Gruden is among his top choices for the job.

NFL Insider is a show on NFL Network. You can likely find clips on NFL Network's YT channel.

SFIAH

 

[Hedon James]

Flow chart for hiring a coach.

Do you chew gum?
Yes - get out of here
No - you're hired

I'd consider a gum chewer.....as long as it’s Juicy Fruit!

 

[kcirdor]

I've been trying to stay out of the Loomis pile on and enjoy it from afar... but Gruden? I'd hate to say i told yall but.... hell I've been telling yall.

 

[Hedon James]

I don't hold Brady responsible for much of anything that happened with that disaster of a franchise.....and one comment from a retired player on something that allegedly happened years ago that may/may not be true really wouldn't sway me much one way or another....

If that's you reason IMO you need to find a better one....

I would believe Teddy Bridgewater. No reason for him to lie, exaggerate, or coverup...nothing to gain; nothing to lose. But I'm not holding that against Brady either. Let's assume it's true. He seems to have learned some things from that experience and is certainly running the Buffalo offense capably. So Brady had success with the Saints, jumped to LSU to run their national championship offense; went to the Panthers and got humbled; and is now with the Bills, seeming to have learned something from his Panthers failure.

Reminds of the Payton situation with NYG when Fassell stripped him of playcalling duties. And Parcells said Payton tends to "get the virus", referring to pass-happy offense. I believe that Fassell and Parcells both humbled Payton somewhat. But CSP seemed to learn from that experience, and got better for it. I'm not saying Brady is the next CSP. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I'm just seeing similarities in their career trajectories. I'm not holding the Panthers gig against Brady either.

Truth be told, I'd MUCH prefer a guy who took a hard punch and got back up off the canvas over a guy who's never taken a hard punch before. I know a LOT about the former; not so much about the latter. JMO...

 

[DSnfla]

I would believe Teddy Bridgewater. No reason for him to lie, exaggerate, or coverup...nothing to gain; nothing to lose. But I'm not holding that against Brady either. Let's assume it's true. He seems to have learned some things from that experience and is certainly running the Buffalo offense capably. So Brady had success with the Saints, jumped to LSU to run their national championship offense; went to the Panthers and got humbled; and is now with the Bills, seeming to have learned something from his Panthers failure.

Reminds of the Payton situation with NYG when Fassell stripped him of playcalling duties. And Parcells said Payton tends to "get the virus", referring to pass-happy offense. I believe that Fassell and Parcells both humbled Payton somewhat. But CSP seemed to learn from that experience, and got better for it. I'm not saying Brady is the next CSP. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I'm just seeing similarities in their career trajectories. I'm not holding the Panthers gig against Brady either.

Truth be told, I'd MUCH prefer a guy who took a hard punch and got back up off the canvas over a guy who's never taken a hard punch before. I know a LOT about the former; not so much about the latter. JMO...

Wait Wait , Brady was just an offensive ast. with the Saints, he had NO success with the Saints at all his role was minimal. At LSU he brought some of Payton's concepts to maybe THE most talented college offense EVER. And he was not the playcaller, Lloyd Cushenberry made 99% of the calls
To compare Brady to Payton is pretty much insane. Fassel was one of the most conservative HCs in the last 30 yrs almost as much as Bud Grant. Payton wanted to open up the offense and Fassel wanted 3yrds and a cloud of dust.

In Buff Dorsey was a scapegoat because Allen was in a slump In 22 Dorsey had the Bills 2nd in the league in scoring and yds. Maybe when Brady does not have maybe the best college QB in 20 yrs and a a QB that was a future HOF QB BEFORE he got there to work with and excels then you can talk about Brady being HC material

That's like giving the driver of the fastest race car all the credit for doing well in the race