If Carr plays Sunday this could be the turning point for the O-line (4 Viewers)

[dutar76]

Some raw numbers that caught my attention when I went exploring. Ive seen QBs getting beat up in every game I've watched this season. I domt think its just a Saints problem. Sacks are definitely WAY up across the league.

16 teams are on pace to have given up >50 sacks.. 9 teams are on pace for >60 sacks. 7 teams on pace for >70 sacks.

In 9 years as a starting QB, Carr has only been sacked 50 times in a season once (2018). And 40 sacks once (2021). And 30 sacks once (2015). The rest of his career has been in the teens twenties. A scouting report on Carr wont ding him as being a QB that takes a lot of sacks.

Is it play-calling and coaching like most seem to think? Is it blown assignments? Is our OL just bad all of a sudden? New offense taking time to gel? Carr still figuring it out? Receivers not getting open? A mixture of all of the above?

Or is something happening league wide thats giving defenses an advantage early in the season? Somethings up for sure. Im not gonna bash anyone, because I don't know where to point the finger.

Another thing to note is that our hobbled OLs the past two years and a revolving door at QB only gave up 37 and 38 sacks.

Also, Carr has only averaged 2.2 seconds pocket time. The year he had 51 sacks, his pocket time was 2.3 seconds. To me, this is the smoking gun. Yes, we've given up some coverage sacks and pressures like most every other team, but with only 2.2 seconds, there's not even enough time to throw the ball away. And since he's only scrambled out of the pocket once in 3 games, any throw-aways would likely be called intentional grounding.

Maybe prime Drew Brees could operate with 2.2 seconds, but he's one of the all time elites. And we have to admit that pressure did effect his stats as well.

Where I disagree somewhat with people saying its on Carmichael's play calling is from my eyes, not a statsheet. This pressue isnt coming from one spot or one side of the line. If it was, theres things you can do to help a player or say the left side of the line. But no, its coming from both sides and the middle. So what do we do? Add two tight ends, two RBs to stay in and block and just give the secondary one WR to cover? IDK... doesnt seem like there's one easy answer.

 

[Rouxble]

Another thing to note is that our hobbled OLs the past two years and a revolving door at QB only gave up 37 and 38 sacks.

Also, Carr has only averaged 2.2 seconds pocket time. The year he had 51 sacks, his pocket time was 2.3 seconds. To me, this is the smoking gun. Yes, we've given up some coverage sacks and pressures like most every other team, but with only 2.2 seconds, there's not even enough time to throw the ball away. And since he's only scrambled out of the pocket once in 3 games, any throw-aways would likely be called intentional grounding.

Maybe prime Drew Brees could operate with 2.2 seconds, but he's one of the all time elites. And we have to admit that pressure did effect his stats as well.

Where I disagree somewhat with people saying its on Carmichael's play calling is from my eyes, not a statsheet. This pressue isnt coming from one spot or one side of the line. If it was, theres things you can do to help a player or say the left side of the line. But no, its coming from both sides and the middle. So what do we do? Add two tight ends, two RBs to stay in and block and just give the secondary one WR to cover? IDK... doesnt seem like there's one easy answer.

As Herm Edwards said on the old Hard Knocks with the Chiefs… can’t double team everybody. When you get a 1v1, you have to win.

Carr is getting the ball out at a middle of the pack rate, but when he has held it more than 2.5 seconds, he has the second worst on target throw rate (behind only Zach Wilson) and the sixth worst sack rate. So when he does hold onto it, it’s rarely good.

 

[Big_L]

I just feel that if Carr plays, it's going to be the turning point for that AC joint. The O linemen are professionals. It shouldn't take the QB getting Junk Yard Dog Thumped for them to block. I think there's more to it than what is being let on.

 

[Rexman100]

Another thing to note is that our hobbled OLs the past two years and a revolving door at QB only gave up 37 and 38 sacks.

Also, Carr has only averaged 2.2 seconds pocket time. The year he had 51 sacks, his pocket time was 2.3 seconds. To me, this is the smoking gun. Yes, we've given up some coverage sacks and pressures like most every other team, but with only 2.2 seconds, there's not even enough time to throw the ball away. And since he's only scrambled out of the pocket once in 3 games, any throw-aways would likely be called intentional grounding.

Maybe prime Drew Brees could operate with 2.2 seconds, but he's one of the all time elites. And we have to admit that pressure did effect his stats as well.

Where I disagree somewhat with people saying its on Carmichael's play calling is from my eyes, not a statsheet. This pressue isnt coming from one spot or one side of the line. If it was, theres things you can do to help a player or say the left side of the line. But no, its coming from both sides and the middle. So what do we do? Add two tight ends, two RBs to stay in and block and just give the secondary one WR to cover? IDK... doesnt seem like there's one easy answer.

you make a good point. DB would punish teams if they blitzed him. So much so, even the National commentators were like, "that's what they get, everyone knows not to blitz Brees he'll take you apart." And that's exactly what happened. With this new group, we're telling the league that we cannot handle a blitz. or any pressure for that matter. We need to design plays that punish pressure. Because right now, our QBs are pressing, even Carr said he was pressing and had to settle down. Our Oline doesn't need to be all world like the Cowboys' a few years ago, but they cannot get immediately blown up Ruiz style. Because there's no play call to stop that.

 

[dutar76]

Y'all act like the OL isn't trying. This is them. Accept it. They aren't good.

Agree, I really dont think effort has anything to do with it. Its not loke our OL is out there loligagging or going through the motions. And extra effort or emotion usually only last through the first drive. After that the game settles back into ability, skill level, technique, performing assignments, and making in-game adjustments.

Where Carr's injury could maybe spark improvement is in gameplanning. I would hope that watching your 150 million dollar investment taking big damage would make the coaching staff put their max focus on fixing this issue at all cost.

 

[St4ever]

Carmichael has to call more quick timing pass plays to help out his QB. Get the ball to AK in space as much as possible when he’s alone in the flats. Utilize the short-intermediate passing game to the TEs, RB, Thomas and Olave, instead of forcing the QB to wait for deeper routes to develop on majority of plays.

Keeping whoever’s the starting QB clean from unnecessary hits with better protection starts with the OC’s playcalling. It really shouldn’t be that hard to implement the quick passing gameplan again if they want to keep the QBs healthy.

I does not matter what the play is called if the QB does not throw the ball away when his receivers are covered. Even a check down is better, so only read two receivers befor checking down to a tight end or RB.

the problem I have seen is checkdown players are not chipping defensive players, they head to them and then release. No one is fooled that way, throw a block then release.

 

[J.T.]

Carr should tell Sneaky Pete that he's playing and that Sneaky Pete can ONLY call these 20-30 passing plays. That's it! Quick hit plays or max protect plays downfield. I think the offense can be MUCH better with faster developing plays and with AK back, this types of plays should be all over the playsheet.

If he can tolerate the pain and there's no additional risk of further injury, I'm all for letting him make the decision to play.

The Offensive Line needs to buck up and start playing like real men. They are being paid a massive amount of money to play like trash. = 🗑

 

[MarylandWHODAT]

Y'all act like the OL isn't trying. This is them. Accept it. They aren't good.

This. And they are first round picks. And they are beyond well paid. They aren't going anywhere.

They aren't good.......

 

[St4ever]

I'm with you on that. I'm mostly thinking what the heck happened to Ram and McCoy? They were very good 2-3 yrs ago, did they just forget how to play? CR was playing pretty well last yr.If Ram and Mac were playing like themselves we could overcome TP's growing pains and maybe even some sub-par performances by Hurst and CR, but it's EVERYONE. Penning may have been our best playing O lineman on Sun. Maybe it's Marrone, but somebody has to light a fire under these guys

Has any of the coaching philosophy changed around this time? Could this be more of the blocking concept compared to the players?
honest question

 

[jrdbrn]

Agree, I really dont think effort has anything to do with it. Its not loke our OL is out there loligagging or going through the motions. And extra effort or emotion usually only last through the first drive. After that the game settles back into ability, skill level, technique, performing assignments, and making in-game adjustments.

Where Carr's injury could maybe spark improvement is in gameplanning. I would hope that watching your 150 million dollar investment taking big damage would make the coaching staff put their max focus on fixing this issue at all cost.

It is 100% coaching at this point. We must adapt or die.

Play calling doesn't help get the ball out faster. We shouldn't be holding the ball. Stop calling plays that take too long to develop.

 

[Rouxble]

It is 100% coaching at this point. We must adapt or die.

Play calling doesn't help get the ball out faster. We shouldn't be holding the ball. Stop calling plays that take too long to develop.

Play calling definitely has an impact, if your first read is at the end of a three step drop the ball should come out sooner. But yes, whether the QB throws it or not is another question.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Another thing to note is that our hobbled OLs the past two years and a revolving door at QB only gave up 37 and 38 sacks.

Also, Carr has only averaged 2.2 seconds pocket time. The year he had 51 sacks, his pocket time was 2.3 seconds. To me, this is the smoking gun. Yes, we've given up some coverage sacks and pressures like most every other team, but with only 2.2 seconds, there's not even enough time to throw the ball away. And since he's only scrambled out of the pocket once in 3 games, any throw-aways would likely be called intentional grounding.

Maybe prime Drew Brees could operate with 2.2 seconds, but he's one of the all time elites. And we have to admit that pressure did effect his stats as well.

Where I disagree somewhat with people saying its on Carmichael's play calling is from my eyes, not a statsheet. This pressue isnt coming from one spot or one side of the line. If it was, theres things you can do to help a player or say the left side of the line. But no, its coming from both sides and the middle. So what do we do? Add two tight ends, two RBs to stay in and block and just give the secondary one WR to cover? IDK... doesnt seem like there's one easy answer.

Drew Brees fastest time to throw in a season averaged 2.4 seconds. I believe his career number in New Orleans was something like 2.5-2.6 which was I think the fastest in the league in that time frame.

So to answer your question, no, not even prime Drew Brees would survive with 2.2 seconds to throw.

 

[dutar76]

It is 100% coaching at this point. We must adapt or die.

Play calling doesn't help get the ball out faster. We shouldn't be holding the ball. Stop calling plays that take too long to develop.

Carr got hurt on a 3rd and 9 when the RB missed his block. That gave the right DE that extra fraction of a second to get home. Carr knew he needed 9 yards, so he waited.

How many times have we fans yelled and screamed about throwing 4 yard passes on 3rd and long? I know I have many many times in recent years. Thats the conservative playcalling we make so much fuss about.

Now as the overall game plan? You are 100% correct. We absolutely need the plan to be quick hitters. But come 3rd down, it is what it is. They made a point on NOF's podcast that we ran the ball 13 times on first down and that 9 of those runs went for 1 yard or less. 3rd and long gives a huge advantage to the pass rush. The flip side is that OL has a huge advantage on run plays. THAT's where we need to start.

 

[RJS]

2023 vs Packers 3rd downs with Carr:

3rd & 9 sack/punt
3rd & 6 short pass left TJJ converted
3rd & 5 TD Graham
3rd & 3 short pass Olave converted
3rd & 9 sack/punt
3rd & 1 pass complete no gain got it on 4th
3rd & 7 incomplete/field goal
3rd & 9 sack/punt Carr injury

I think it's safe to say that we need to get more production on 1st and 2nd down.

 

[MV2]

Carmichael has to call more quick timing pass plays to help out his QB. Get the ball to AK in space as much as possible when he’s alone in the flats. Utilize the short-intermediate passing game to the TEs, RB, Thomas and Olave, instead of forcing the QB to wait for deeper routes to develop on majority of plays.

Keeping whoever’s the starting QB clean from unnecessary hits with better protection starts with the OC’s playcalling. It really shouldn’t be that hard to implement the quick passing gameplan again if they want to keep the QBs healthy.

Remember last year when Pete said they are trying to figure out how to get AK the ball? I have no faith in him. That statement said it all.