Israel (now broader Mid East discussion) (2 Viewers)

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

 

[SamAndreas]

This hits so close to home for me. Special needs children caught up and slaughtered….so innocent. Her body along with her grandma’s was found burned.

Israeli girl, 12, seen in viral ‘Harry Potter’ photo found dead with grandma in Gaza

Noya Dan, who had autism, was taken along with her grandmother Carmela on October 7.

nypost.com

Inside burnt remains of autistic girl's home torched by Hamas

Only charred remains are left inside Noya's house. The frame of an electric cooker stands among piles of ash and broken crockery. The fridge is burnt and buckled. The shelves are incinerated

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yeah, I have a special needs boy, man actually, he's almost 30 years old now. Taller than me.

He's with me almost all the time. He loves to help with work. I like to set it up so he can help me with work.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[SamAndreas]

She's of a reconstructionist movement in Judaism. They tend to be quite open about having atheists within their community. In other words belief in God is optional. It's about keeping the traditional laws unless there is a specific reason not to. They like performing the rituals, keeping the holidays and sabbaths. Very active with maintaining their services. It's not so much about religion, it's about traditions and their cultural identity.

So with that It wouldn't surprise me a bit to find out that a very frum wild eyed orthodox Jew killed her instead of it being a wild eyed Muslim. Her movement tends to try to reach Muslim's and find peace with them.

They tend to be somewhat anti-Zonists, Would be the ones who are likely reminding everyone that there are two sides to this, and would be calling for Israel to show reasonable restraint with the Gazan innocents.

There are several reform movements that are quite similar in America. Adding them all together they probably out number the very frum Orthadox Jews 2 to 1.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[Madmarsha]

There are many degrees of their anti-ness. In that wide scale I almost appear at the bottom because I'm a bit anti-Zionist. Anti-Zionist is not necessarily the same thing as being anti-Israel. Will it blend is always a question. They can blend:
....

I'm not anti-Israel but the two come close. My support for Israel is tempered by my wish that they would stop being an apartheid state.

Hey, would you give me a child's explanation of Zionist?

 

[SamAndreas]

Hey, would you give me a child's explanation of Zionist?

Jews who want to establish a Jewish state where they briefly had a state 2,000 to 3,000 years ago. A religious theocracy is somewhat implied.

 

[Madmarsha]

Jews who want to establish a Jewish state where they briefly had a state 2,000 to 3,000 years ago. A religious theocracy is somewhat implied.

Thank you. So not all Jews are Zionists? Not all Jews are religious? And anti-semites do not distinguish?

I'm sorry to sound stupid but I just needed some Cliff's Notes to get stuff ordered in my head.

 

[DaveXA]

Jews who want to establish a Jewish state where they briefly had a state 2,000 to 3,000 years ago. A religious theocracy is somewhat implied.

Also, in response to Marsha's maybe you can explain it better, but iirc not all Jews are Jews in the way we tend to think about DNA. Tradition is that you're not technically Jewish unless your mother is Jewish. It passes through the maternal bloodline iirc. My mother's great grandparents were Jewish, but even though her grandfather was Jewish, it didn't pass to her dad, or herself. If it could pass either side, I'd be 1/8th bia bloodline.

The other way is to to convert to Judaism, and the principles remain the same. Maternal descendants would be Jewish.

I don't practice it or anything, but the lineage thing is an interesting aspect to think about.

 

[DaveXA]

Thank you. So not all Jews are Zionists?

Right.

Not all Jews are religious?

Correct.

And anti-semites do not distinguish?

They may or may not. It depends.

I'm sorry to sound stupid but I just needed some Cliff's Notes to get stuff ordered in my head.

Not stupid at all. And I'm sure Sam can expand a bit on your questions.

 

[Madmarsha]

Not stupid at all. And I'm sure Sam can expand a bit on your questions.

Yeah, I feel stupid for feeling stupid. lol No, it just occurs to me that as I'm trying to gain more understanding and try to listen to people debating the various issues, nobody ever accomplishes the first rule of debate and defines terms and instead expects everybody to be up -- or, perhaps, down -- to their level. It's how we all talk to each other these days. Again back to the "Well, if YOU don't know ..."

I know I'm not the smartest but, dammit, I'm also not the dumbest and a lot of the screaming is being done by people who have only been alive a couple decades and let's just say I'm left wondering how much history they know. And, hey, maybe they are able to grasp the entire perspective of the history better than I am. I'm fully capable of understanding that many people much younger than me have amazing intellects. But I also remember how "black and white" things used to be in my idealistic 20s.

 

[Infoman]

Stupid people don’t ask honest questions looking for honest answers to gather informed opinions and / or ignore what doesn’t match up with their own preconceived notions. You are not stupid, nor should you feel that way. Question everyone and everything girl.

 

[Madmarsha]

Stupid people don’t ask honest questions looking for honest answers to form informed opinions and / or ignore what doesn’t match up with their own preconceived notions. You are not stupid, nor should you feel that way. Question everyone and everything girl.

There are mos def some who don't ask enough questions. Whether it's hubris -- which I suspect is extremely common -- or the desire to not, as I said, look stupid.

For myself, no, I don't want to be thought of as dumb. But also, I don't want to look like I'm just in search of someone telling me WHAT to think if I were to ask them what THEY think. But I do like to ask people what they think, esp. if I suspect I'm likely to not agree with them. I don't get a whole lot from protests and people waving their signs. I don't desire to dwell in confrontation, but nor do I desire to dwell in an echo chamber.

 

[DaveXA]

Yeah, I feel stupid for feeling stupid. lol No, it just occurs to me that as I'm trying to gain more understanding and try to listen to people debating the various issues, nobody ever accomplishes the first rule of debate and defines terms and instead expects everybody to be up -- or, perhaps, down -- to their level. It's how we all talk to each other these days. Again back to the "Well, if YOU don't know ..."

I know I'm not the smartest but, dammit, I'm also not the dumbest and a lot of the screaming is being done by people who have only been alive a couple decades and let's just say I'm left wondering how much history they know. And, hey, maybe they are able to grasp the entire perspective of the history better than I am. I'm fully capable of understanding that many people much younger than me have amazing intellects. But I also remember how "black and white" things used to be in my idealistic 20s.

Yeah, today's "black and white" idealism is much different from the "black and white" of 30 and 40 years ago. Which is fine. Things change. I do think today's kids, mine for example, have more knowledge than I did at their age, but they care about different things than I did also. We didn't have history at our fingertips back in the day, so more of our learning was traditional classroom learning.

Kids learn from their social media sources as much as school, so their views are shaped differently and that's for better and worse. All that knowledge can go to their heads, or their sources can be unreliable and their views shaped by those unreliable sources.

All that said, it's a mixed bag like a lot of things. In some ways they're way ahead of where I was, but their lives far more stressful than I remember mine being at that age.